Tarzan vs Captain America

Originally posted by Robtard
The Cap/SM fight was an example of how intelligence+skill+tactics can overcome physical superiority.

Though SM should be smarter than Cap, he's still green and doesn't have the skills or tactics that Cap has.

Also, Spidey took down WS and Falcon with no issues. So if the fight between Capt and Spiderman went on I do not see Capt coming out victorious.

Originally posted by KingD19
Okay, let me reiterate. Iron Man. One of the smartest men on the planet, and until that point, one of Cap's closest friends and battle buddies needed to take him down. Don't you think he'd tell Spidey every scrap of information he knew about how to beat Captain Mutherf*cking America?

Originally posted by Kotor3
I agree with your statement. The thing is it wasn't a defeat as if he actually put Spidey down as some here are trying to imply. He caused a distraction that kept Spiderman busy. This is a untrained Spiderman. I'm not saying he would ever be as trained in fighting as Capt but his powers are still new to him. I believe he was only Spidey for 6 months.

Also, Spidey took down WS and Falcon with no issues. So if the fight between Capt and Spiderman went on I do not see Capt coming out victorious.

Well no, but Cap did achieve his goal though, using his superior skills and tactics. Wasn't commenting on who would kill who in a MVF match.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well no, but Cap did achieve his goal though, using his superior skills and tactics. Wasn't commenting on who would kill who in a MVF match.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
You know cap beat spiderman right? He beat a prepped spidey who was given knowledge to beat him.

No he didn't, he never beat him. I never saw him incapacitated or KO'd. Further, by that logic Parker beat him first. He got the jump on him, disarmed him of his sword and tied his hands together. Parker won then.

Tarzan is good, but not that good. Cap wins.

Cap beats this euro nancy boy to death.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I don't know what acting you would expect in a film like Tarzan

The kind of acting I'd expect from any film: the non-terrible kind.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No he didn't, he never beat him. I never saw him incapacitated or KO'd. Further, by that logic Parker beat him first. He got the jump on him, disarmed him of his sword and tied his hands together. Parker won then.

Did not cap hide an antman in his shield. Petey fell for that trick despite spideysense. Round 1 one goes to cap.

In round two he tossed spidey around then kicked him under a plane thus incapacitating him. Round two goes to cap as well. And based on the ironman fight, I'd say cap is stronger than bucky and sam.

But all this is irrelevant to the topic. Steve rogers stomps john clayton, a pride of lions and a crocodile.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Another one of your assumptions. We know he gave Spidey one piece of advice. So the man that took out WS and Falcon with no issues would be defeated by Capt? There is no way in Hell Capt could take WS and Falcon with no issues. That was a defeat, them being at Spidey mercy unable to do anything.

This is kind of a double standard. You downplay the fact that Cap used his environment to temporarily incapacitate Spiderman, meaning Spidey was unable to do something to counter. Yet claimed Falcon and WS were at Spidey's mercy and unable to do "anything", even though he actually only pinned down WS's one arm, where Bucky was concerned, and got BFR'd by Redwing.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This is kind of a double standard. You downplay the fact that Cap used his environment to temporarily incapacitate Spiderman, meaning Spidey was unable to do something to counter. Yet claimed Falcon and WS were at Spidey's mercy and unable to do "anything", even though he actually only pinned down WS's one arm, where Bucky was concerned, and got BFR'd by Redwing.

Unlike WS and Falcon, who as you stated were pinned down and if Spiderman was looking to hurt them could have. Spiderman got caught while talking by a last effort by Falcon. Note WS could do nothing. Also it was clearly in Capt best interest to occupy Spiderman while he got away.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Really? I totally disagree with your statement. Spiderman while occupied was far from incapacitated. Even if Capt threw his shield their was nothing indicating that Spiderman could not kick his shield back or leave his situation before contact.

Unlike WS and Falcon, who as you stated were pinned down and if Spiderman was looking to hurt them could have. Spiderman got caught while talking by a last effort by Falcon. Note WS could do nothing. Also it was clearly in Capt best interest to occupy Spiderman while he got away.

Cap pinned Spiderman down, while conversing with him, during their fight. Spiderman failed to pin both WS and Falcon down before getting BFR'd. So talking is no excuse. And if Cap had walked up to Peter while he was pinned, and shield bashed him in the throat? What then? Cap could have pressed the advantage he created, but chose not to.

And Winter Soldier barely did anything in that fight in anyways. It was more Spiderman vs Falcon, with Bucky making enough of a cameo so that you didn't forget he was there. He threw one punch, threw some board or sign at Spidey from a distance, and shielded Falcon from that one kick that knocked them through that railing. So three things during that entire encounter.

What proof do you have Bucky could do "nothing"? Most of his body was still free, and we see both him and Falcon loose later. Plus, Cap had his shield, while Winter Soldier (bizarrely) chose to enter that airport fight without any weapons.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Cap pinned Spiderman down, while conversing with him, during their fight. Spiderman failed to pin both WS and Falcon down before getting BFR'd. So talking is no excuse. And if Cap had walked up to Peter while he was pinned, and shield bashed him in the throat? What then? Cap could have pressed the advantage he created, but chose not to.

And Winter Soldier barely did anything in that fight in anyways. It was more Spiderman vs Falcon, with Bucky making enough of a cameo so that you didn't forget he was there. He threw one punch, threw some board or sign at Spidey from a distance, and shielded Falcon from that one kick that knocked them through that railing. So three things during that entire encounter.

What proof do you have Bucky could do "nothing"? Most of his body was still free, and we see both him and Falcon loose later. Plus, Cap had his shield, while Winter Soldier (bizarrely) chose to enter that airport fight without any weapons.

As for Bucky, I don't know what you are talking about, he specially tried to punch Spiderman with his metal arm. He barely did anything because he couldn't, unless you are implying that Falcon and WS let themselves casually be defeated. We see neither Falcon nor WS breakout from the web. Even after Spiderman was caught off guard they were still on the floor pinned down. Talking allowed an inexperience Spiderman get caught off guard.

You're trying to downplay Spiderman's victory to make it seem like Capt actually had Spiderman at his mercy which is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Kotor3
We saw two different fights. First Spiderman was never in danger when fighting Capt. Two Capt does not have the strength to pinned down Spiderman (something I don't specifically recall). I don't have the movie with me now but I just youtube the fight. When did Capt pin Spiderman down? Please post.

I am talking about the thing he collapsed on Spiderman. Spiderman had to focus all his attention on keeping it up, leaving him wide open to another attack. Which Steve decided not to do. So Cap had the clear advantage when he left.

Originally posted by Kotor3

As for Bucky, I don't know what you are talking about, he specially tried to punch Spiderman with his metal arm. He barely did anything because he couldn't, unless you are implying that Falcon and WS let themselves casually be defeated. We see neither Falcon nor WS breakout from the web. Even after Spiderman was caught off guard they were still on the floor pinned down. Talking allowed an inexperience Spiderman get caught off guard.

Yes, he tried to hit in once with that arm, which was the extent of their H2H engagement. He also threw a sign at him. That is the extent Winter Soldier tried to attack Spiderman.

And see, here you throw out the word "defeat" and make it sound like Spiderman did not ultimately fail in his task. And we see them for like 2 seconds, after Spiderman is gone, having a comedic moment. And very shortly after, see the two of them join up with the rest of the group, coming from a different direction to the others. So, based on what we see, they got themselves out within very short order, after Spiderman got BFR'd. So don't pretend like they were completely trapped and helpless.

Originally posted by Kotor3

You're trying to downplay Spiderman's victory to make it seem like Capt actually had Spiderman at his mercy which is ridiculous.

No, you are downplaying the fact that Cap got Spiderman into a position where he had him dead to rights, and acting like Spiderman stomped both Falcon & WS instantly, when he didn't actually even manage to finish the job.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am talking about the thing he collapsed on Spiderman. Spiderman had to focus all his attention on keeping it up, leaving him wide open to another attack. Which Steve decided not to do. So Cap had the clear advantage when he left.

As stated previously, if Capt threw his shield at Spiderman, Spiderman is more than capable of kicking it back or getting out of the way before impact. So I don’t see the situation as Capt having Spiderman at this mercy.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, he tried to hit in [B]once with that arm, which was the extent of their H2H engagement. He also threw a sign at him. That is the extent Winter Soldier tried to attack Spiderman.
And see, here you throw out the word "defeat" and make it sound like Spiderman did not ultimately fail in his task. And we see them for like 2 seconds, after Spiderman is gone, having a comedic moment. And very shortly after, see the two of them join up with the rest of the group, coming from a different direction to the others. So, based on what we see, they got themselves out within very short order, after Spiderman got BFR'd. So don't pretend like they were completely trapped and helpless. [/B]

Also, I never said helpless, I said they were at the mercy of Spiderman.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, you are downplaying the fact that Cap got Spiderman into a position where he had him dead to rights, and acting like Spiderman stomped both Falcon & WS instantly, when he didn't actually even manage to finish the job.

Since WS and Capt got away everyone failed not just Spiderman.

@ Kotor3. Except Cap did tag him, even without Spiderman being occupied and straining, holding an extremely heavy object. Nothing you say can get around that. Where did I say "mercy"? I said Cap had the clear advantage and that Spiderman was wide open at that point.

Again, Winter Soldier was not completely pinned down. Three of his four limbs were still loose. But keep glossing over that. Also, again, he barely made any extended attempt to engage Spiderman. And initially you did say they couldn't do "anything" and then later said WS could do "nothing", which implies being helpless.

What do the rest of them have to do with it? We're talking about Cap, WS, Falcon and Spiderman here. If you want to involve the rest, then we have to bring up Giant Man as well, which was the main reason Cap and Bucky got away from the other group (as well as Widow's betrayal).

Spiderman did pretty decently, especially for a noob, but that doesn't change the fact that his inexperience allowed him to lose control over both situations. And that doesn't change the fact that Cap did well against Spiderman, despite Peter's stat advantage. Which is the actual point of the matter.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Did not cap hide an antman in his shield. Petey fell for that trick despite spideysense. Round 1 one goes to cap.

In round two he tossed spidey around then kicked him under a plane thus incapacitating him. Round two goes to cap as well. And based on the ironman fight, I'd say cap is stronger than bucky and sam.

But all this is irrelevant to the topic. Steve rogers stomps john clayton, a pride of lions and a crocodile.

Negative. Cap didn't want to be disarmed from his shield nor have his hands tied and be vulnerable to attack. He's simply lucky nobody attacked him then. He could've hide the greatest weapon ever in his shield, that doesn't change the fact that he didn't want to be disarmed and tied up. Round 1, clearly and decisively was Parker

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Cap pinned Spiderman down, while conversing with him, during their fight. Spiderman failed to pin both WS and Falcon down before getting BFR'd. So talking is no excuse. And if Cap had walked up to Peter while he was pinned, and shield bashed him in the throat? What then? Cap could have pressed the advantage he created, but chose not to.

And Winter Soldier barely did anything in that fight in anyways. It was more Spiderman vs Falcon, with Bucky making enough of a cameo so that you didn't forget he was there. He threw one punch, threw some board or sign at Spidey from a distance, and shielded Falcon from that one kick that knocked them through that railing. So three things during that entire encounter.

What proof do you have Bucky could do "nothing"? Most of his body was still free, and we see both him and Falcon loose later. Plus, Cap had his shield, while Winter Soldier (bizarrely) chose to enter that airport fight without any weapons.

I understand what you're saying, but Parker could've pressed his advantage after he disarmed him and tied him up bud. He didn't either. Cap did well against Spiderman, don't get me wrong, however we both know it was a little PIS going on there as well.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I understand what you're saying, but Parker could've pressed his advantage after he disarmed him and tied him up bud. He didn't either. Cap did well against Spiderman, don't get me wrong, however we both know it was a little PIS going on there as well.

There was plenty of PIS in that movie, as well as people holding back and not going for more lethal force. Cap himself seemed more interested in playing 20 Questions, as opposed to fighting. Falcon also had a bunch of weapons he chose not to use against Spidey either. My point was that someone can't really act like Spiderman instantly roflstomped Winter Soldier and Falcon, and then downplay what Cap managed to do to Spidey, considering how similar the supposed "victory" conditions are. There were very few actual traditional "wins" in that movie, and a hell of a lot of interruptions, fleeing, BFR's etc.

Though I do have to wonder how this thread got to this point. I thought this was Tarzan vs Cap. Not a Civil War re-hash, or a lion killing competition.

Edit: I mean the common consensus seems that Cap wins. Are people really so desperate to nitpick how comfortable the win is that they just want to keep stretching this thread out?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
@ Kotor3. Except Cap did tag him, even without Spiderman being occupied and straining, holding an extremely heavy object. Nothing you say can get around that. Where did I say "mercy"? I said Cap had the clear advantage and that Spiderman was wide open at that point.

Again, Winter Soldier was not completely pinned down. Three of his four limbs were still loose. But keep glossing over that. Also, again, he barely made any extended attempt to engage Spiderman. And initially you did say they couldn't do "anything" and then later said WS could do "nothing", which implies being helpless.

What do the rest of them have to do with it? We're talking about Cap, WS, Falcon and Spiderman here. If you want to involve the rest, then we have to bring up Giant Man as well, which was the main reason Cap and Bucky got away from the other group (as well as Widow's betrayal).

Spiderman did pretty decently, especially for a noob, but that doesn't change the fact that his inexperience allowed him to lose control over both situations. And that doesn't change the fact that Cap did well against Spiderman, despite Peter's stat advantage. Which is the actual point of the matter.

WS and Falcon could not do anything at the immediate moment. I'm not saying that WS could not come up with a move to try to attack Spiderman if Spidermen did attack immediately. We don't know. We do know that Spiderman tho lacking experience has the superior abilities automatically giving him the advantage in a situation were his inferior opponents are tied up even if it is only parts of their body. Thus they would be at his mercy due to the advantages he had in that situation.

Capt being the inferior does not have the same advantages. So, Spiderman was not in the same situation as WS and Falcon where a superior of his would be attacking him and he would have to counter while occupied.

The situations are not the same as you are trying to make them out to be.