Darth Caedus vs. Exar Kun.

EDIT: From the other page: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15927764#post15927764

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Another thing to note, is that if Bnar's strength in that form is primarily drawn from the planets life energy, than he would logically be a lot weaker in
Dark Empire than in Tales of the Jedi. Given that during Kun's time the planet's surface was covered in water and an abundance of flora and fauna - life energy - and in 10ABY it was basically desolate until the Galatic alliance was formed 30 years later. So Kun's certainly not out of the game, and just because he couldn't get past the defences, and really, of a guy who had survived planetary devastation, I won't hold it as a black mark against him.

*Than it took them to obliterate each other.

Given Sedriss, reluctance to die at the hands of sidious, I would says he's not willing to give his life away here. Also, just another gripe, Luke was not in the center of the beam that destroyed them. So whatever energy he's tanking is merely residual.

This comparison is starting to become more flawed by the minute...

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
*Than it took them to obliterate each other.

Given Sedriss, reluctance to die at the hands of sidious, I would says he's not willing to give his life away here. Also, just another gripe, Luke was not in the center of the beam that destroyed them. So whatever energy he's tanking is merely residual.

And see the other page, Kun was no further from Bnar when knocked on his ass.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not sure what your point is, fact is Sedriss summoned is powers in an instant. So if Kun is more powerful he should be able to do the same.

I'm talking about the source of the destruction, and who had the higher stake in it. The panel you shared does more than imply that it was Bnar, that wanted to an hero, and not Sedriss.

Regardless the source material is explicit, it says Kun couldn't not break Bnar's defences, not that he didn't have the time.

As I said before, whatever power Bnar could summon in Kun's time was obviously potent enough to tank the desolation of a planets surface. So I'm not too bothered that Kun couldn't get past that.

And see the other page, Kun was no further from Bnar when knocked on his ass.

Being knocked on his ass means little to nothing unless he's rooting himself to the ground. Not a valid comparison to measure one's force power.

I mean this a rather heavy implication insomuch that bnar was planning to depart the living realm and become one with the force

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I have come here to give Myth my concession. Good game sir. I will now be waving the banner of Sedriss for saber and Force power. Well not really, but I had never seen that comparison up until now and it does prove that Kun can't just walk through everyone as I once thought, and that he is more on the level with Vader and Co.

Good. I like this improvement.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
However there is a mistake with Jacen's cannon deflection argument that must be adressed. The fire he deflected didn't chew up starfighters, those were different guns entirely. The same goes for Jaina and Lowbacca being disarmed.

Actually, the "turboblasters" from the ship Jaina, Zekk and Jacen engaged started firing at a Star Destroyer of some sorts and then the starfighters got damaged in the middle of the struggle. Given that the starfighters were on the side of said Star Destroyer, IIRC, I find it doubtful they aimed at their own vessels.

As for Lowbacca and Jaina, fair enough I guess. Still, this is hardly Jacen's only claim to fame, as it were.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I'm talking about the source of the destruction, and who had the higher stake in it. The panel you shared does more than imply that it was Bnar, that wanted to an hero, and not Sedriss.

Sensing that this is his final battle, Sedriss hurls his mind deep into the dark side, calling down energy from the planet's charged atmosphere.

"Get back Skywalker. This evil one is trying to kill me! But I am a greater master of the Force than he."

Sedriss sensed his impending death, but appeared determined to go out with a bang. Bnar realised Sedriss' intentions to destroy him and attempted to stop it, but failed, though succeeding to taking Sedriss out with him. That is my reading.

EDIT: Though even if we assume Bnar went suicidal, that only suggests that he knew he couldn't stop Sedriss destroying him, else there would be no need.

As I said before, whatever power Bnar could summon in Kun's time was obviously potent enough to tank the desolation of a planets surface. So I'm not too bothered that Kun couldn't get past that.

Being knocked on his ass means little to nothing unless he's rooting himself to the ground. Not a valid comparison to measure one's force power.

The charged atmosphere that Sedriss used to fuel his attack wasn't present when Kun fought Ood. Sedriss didn't use his own powers for the attack, so a comparison between his power and Kun can't be made.

And like Ziggy said, Ood was using the power of Ossus itself to repel Kun. There wouldn't be nearly as much in Sedriss' time after the planet had been blasted to ruins.

But the radiation itself was rather pathetic in comparison to Ood, who withstood supernovas. So really, Sedriss would've ramped said power up with his own, as he annihilated Ood.

The planet had less life, but it should be noted Ood sunk deeper into Ossuss over the years. His roots made contact with the core of the nexus world by the time of Dark Empire, thus he can draw more from it, so it should balance out.

👆

Time for Kun to take his L.

Originally posted by MythLord
But the radiation itself was rather pathetic in comparison to Ood, who withstood supernovas. So really, Sedriss would've ramped said power up with his own, as he annihilated Ood.

The planet had less life, but it should be noted Ood sunk deeper into Ossuss over the years. His roots made contact with the core of the nexus world by the time of Dark Empire, thus he can draw more from it, so it should balance out.

Unfortunately you're wrong, because the source only states that he "calls down the energy of the charged atmosphere", not uses his own power to attack. It's obvious that Bnar was simply weaker and hit by an entirely different kind of force than what he survived in the past.

The planet had next to no life and Bnar was specifically calling upon the "life energy of the planet". It would be an infinitesimal fraction of what he could call upon from a lush and populated planet. And that isn't how that works. He's drawing on the force, he isn't going to draw more of it just by being spread out. Also prove that that statement is true. Bnar could call power from the core in Kun's time, so there would hardly be a difference in range.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unfortunately you're wrong, because the source only states that he "calls down the energy of the charged atmosphere", not uses his own power to attack. It's obvious that Bnar was simply weaker and hit by an entirely different kind of force than what he survived in the past.

The planet had next to no life and Bnar was specifically calling upon the "life energy of the planet". It would be an infinitesimal fraction of what he could call upon from a lush and populated planet. And that isn't how that works. He's drawing on the force, he isn't going to draw more of it just by being spread out. Also prove that that statement is true. Bnar could call power from the core in Kun's time, so there would hardly be a difference in range.

👆

Ood draws on the living force of the planet

The living Force as per Jedi path

"The Living Force allows Jedi to connect with the plants and animals that inhabit the world around them."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unfortunately you're wrong, because the source only states that he "calls down the energy of the charged atmosphere", not uses his own power to attack. It's obvious that Bnar was simply weaker and hit by an entirely different kind of force than what he survived in the past.

Wrong dear. Sources note he's drawing energy from the charged atmosphere, but he's obviously adding his own power to that energy. It'd make no sense for Sedriss not to add his own power, if he's going to go out with a bang.

Ood isn't weaker than his old self, and that is just your own conjecture. In fact, Ood sucked up most of Ossuss' power, and that is why he was the focal point of the Ysanna's power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The planet had next to no life and Bnar was specifically calling upon the "life energy of the planet". It would be an infinitesimal fraction of what he could call upon from a lush and populated planet. And that isn't how that works. He's drawing on the force, he isn't going to draw more of it just by being spread out. Also prove that that statement is true. Bnar could call power from the core in Kun's time, so there would hardly be a difference in range.

Except Ossuss even here is filled with life, and has a colony of Force sensitives living on it. It was devestated four millennia ago, but it clearly has recovered and is filled with the Force from it's core. Even Luke notes how the Jedi can still inhabit Ossus and how the Force is powerful in it:

And Ood Bnar's roots sunk deeper over time.

Originally posted by MythLord
Wrong dear. Sources note he's drawing energy from the charged atmosphere, but he's obviously adding his own power to that energy. It'd make no sense for Sedriss not to add his own power, if he's going to go out with a bang.

Ood isn't weaker than his old self, and that is just your own conjecture. In fact, Ood sucked up most of Ossuss' power, and that is why he was the focal point of the Ysanna's power.

I'm sorry, I'm wrong? I just told you what the text says, the actual facts and then you merely state your opinion. He isn't "obviously" doing anything except what the thing tells us he's doing.

He hadn't used the Force for 4000 years you peon. And if he sucked it up it would have been to sustain his life for that time. He's clearly weaker.

Originally posted by MythLord
Except Ossuss even here is filled with life, and has a colony of Force sensitives living on it. It was devestated four millennia ago, but it clearly has recovered and is filled with the Force from it's core. Even Luke notes how the Jedi can still inhabit Ossus and how the Force is powerful in it:

And Ood Bnar's roots sunk deeper over time.

No it isn't. It's a barren wasteland with a sky bleeding with radiation and electricity.

Whether it had the force or not, Bnar was specifically drawing on life energy which would be almost non-existent.

Prove that they sunk deeper. I don't recall seeing his roots after he dies.

The text says that Sedriss "hurls his mind deep into the dark side" dear.

..... to call down the energy, yes. Thank you, I can read.

I will say that regardless of the discussion at hand or if either of you actually mean what you're saying, if you do happen to seriously think that Sedriss remotely compares to Kun in any fashion at all...... then you are actually a complete blithering twit. It truly would be gobsmackingly stupid to seriously think that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sorry, [b]I'm wrong? I just told you what the text says, the actual facts and then you merely state your opinion. He isn't "obviously" doing anything except what the thing tells us he's doing.[/B]

Which is an appeal to ignorance. Simply logic would note Sedriss drew from the electric discharge and radiation, and then annihilated Ood Bnar. Since a supernova failed, some simple radiation wouldn't have done squat to Bnar.

And it'd make no sense for Sedriss to just be like: "Well, I can use this power that I have at my disposal to add to the destructive force I'm calling down from the atmosphere, or I can just redirect some minute energies".

Originally posted by Nephthys
He hadn't used the Force for 4000 years you peon. And if he sucked it up it would have been to sustain his life for that time. He's clearly weaker.

Karness Muur didn't use the Force in 7000 years. He still used it just fine when push comes to shove. And the Neti species is essentially immortal, or are known for living thousands of years, so he wouldn't need to sustain his life energy for that time at all, lmao.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't. It's a barren wasteland with a sky bleeding with radiation and electricity.

Yet it's flaura and fauna was noted in later novels, it has enough life energy to sustain colonies of Force sensitives, and was clearly enough for Ood Bnar to create such a massive explosion.

We've only seen the ruins of Ossus in the comic, since that was the location Luke and Kam were focusing on -- the old Jedi ruins and libraries, which understandably have little plants. Also, Dark Empire's artwork is confusing in general.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whether it had the force or not, Bnar was specifically drawing on life energy which would be almost non-existent.

Hardly non-existent. The Living Force, which is the thing Luke was sensing, is derived from living beings. And there's certainly a lot of living beings on the planet of Luke feels the Force as being intensely concentrated on the planet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Prove that they sunk deeper. I don't recall seeing his roots after he dies.

I mean, he leaves his descendant in his place, where his roots were. And he was "uprooted" in a way, upon his death.

Originally posted by Nephthys
..... to call down the energy, yes. Thank you, I can read.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I will say that regardless of the discussion at hand or if either of you actually mean what you're saying, if you do happen to seriously think that Sedriss remotely compares to Kun in any fashion at all...... then you are actually a complete blithering twit. It truly would be gobsmackingly stupid to seriously think that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Rather missed the point there, being that if he's drawing deeply on the dark side in this manner, we've every reason to believe he concentrated those energies with his power.

He used that power to harness the energy of the atmosphere.