Where to rank Kit Fisto and/or Shaak Ti?

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yes, all valid points but speed isn't exactly his only asset :/

Against Shaak Ti, it is.

It's the only area he surpasses her, and even that is debatable.

Would giving Fisto two sabers make any difference at all?

Probably not.

It helped him with Grievous' offence, but Shaak Ti isn't Grievous. I doubt Fisto is more skilled win two, he would have used two all the time if he was.

Originally posted by Selenial
Probably not.

It helped him with Grievous' offence, but Shaak Ti isn't Grievous. I doubt Fisto is more skilled win two, he would have used two all the time if he was.

Nice 👆
I think it's established here that Shaak wins but they are on the same skill level right? Just above likes of Koon, Kolar, Mundi?

Ti is just better suited against Kit. That doesn't necessary mean, that she should be rank higher.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Nice 👆
I think it's established here that Shaak wins but they are on the same skill level right? Just above likes of Koon, Kolar, Mundi?

I wouldn't say, that Ti or Kit are above Koon or Kolar. More like the same league.

Koon is good, but he's fairly slow-ish. Against Kit/Shaak it's suicide, and what has Kolar done?!

Fisto's style is pretty context-dependent, it'll cause havoc for Grievous, his Magnaguards and in general anyone who responds poorly to high speed, randomised assaults. Meanwhile a Makashi practitioner like Ventress is going to have an edge over Fisto (though apparently she studied his style before they fought?). Other than that, Fisto's brand of Shii-Cho has no noted inherent weaknesses to other forms or any glaring issues we can interpret from the material. "It wasn't designed for dueling" clearly isn't an excuse because Fisto manages just fine using it as a dueling form.

I'm sceptical if Ti can actually make use of Makashi to undermine Kit, given the disparity in their accomplishments. Slapping a not-fully-charged TCW Grievous around with visible ease versus getting destroyed by OCW Grievous perhaps isn't the fairest comparison to make, but it's near enough the only one we have. Other than that, Fisto was chosen over Ti for the B-team and Ti is regarded as lower than Cin Drallig at the time of RotS by a couple of sourcebooks. I'd say by RotS Fisto is certainly beyond RotS Ti.

Whether she improved enough by TFU to surpass him, I'm not totally sure, and it's also a case of determining what version of TFU's Felucia battle you rely on. The Graphic Novel outright suggests that Felucia is a Dark-sided environment and Ti is a lone beacon of the Light Side. The novel suggests that Ti's Light Side practice over the years has "stifled" the Dark Side's ability to manifest in the area, which weakened Marek. And obviously the duels are visibly different from source to source.

Originally posted by ILS
Fisto's style is pretty context-dependent, it'll cause havoc for Grievous, his Magnaguards and in general anyone who responds poorly to high speed, randomised assaults. Meanwhile a Makashi practitioner like Ventress is going to have an edge over Fisto (though apparently she studied his style before they fought?). Other than that, Fisto's brand of Shii-Cho has no noted inherent weaknesses to other forms or any glaring issues we can interpret from the material. "It wasn't designed for dueling" clearly isn't an excuse because Fisto manages just fine using it as a dueling form.

I'm sceptical if Ti can actually make use of Makashi to undermine Kit, given the disparity in their accomplishments. Slapping a not-fully-charged TCW Grievous around with visible ease versus getting destroyed by OCW Grievous perhaps isn't the fairest comparison to make, but it's near enough the only one we have. Other than that, Fisto was chosen over Ti for the B-team and Ti is regarded as lower than Cin Drallig at the time of RotS by a couple of sourcebooks. I'd say by RotS Fisto is certainly beyond RotS Ti.

Whether she improved enough by TFU to surpass him, I'm not totally sure, and it's also a case of determining what version of TFU's Felucia battle you rely on. The Graphic Novel outright suggests that Felucia is a Dark-sided environment and Ti is a lone beacon of the Light Side. The novel suggests that Ti's Light Side practice over the years has "stifled" the Dark Side's ability to manifest in the area, which weakened Marek. And obviously the duels are visibly different from source to source.

My love goes out to you for this <3

When did Kit slap TCW GG silly? I recall him using the environment to gain the advantage, and SW.com stating Grievous was overwhelming him.

Shaak was placed to guard the Jedi Temple as a legitimate plan B if Mace and co failed. That might be because he ranks her tactical abilities above Fisto's.

There's only one sourcebook that says Cin > Shaak, IIRC and even then it's ambiguous who it's referring to. And that'd be more good for Drallig, than bad for Ti.

He was never losing the grievous fight. He did use the environment to his advantage once and then there was a blade lock, he cut off Grievous' hand and then pushed grievous back with two sabers. Kit smacked him into the ground with a force push like a little ***** then contended with 3 magnaguards

Originally posted by MythLord
When did Kit slap TCW GG silly? I recall him using the environment to gain the advantage, and SW.com stating Grievous was overwhelming him.

Shaak was placed to guard the Jedi Temple as a legitimate plan B if Mace and co failed. That might be because he ranks her tactical abilities above Fisto's.

Then we have the temple defence, which is led by Ti and Drallig, with Drallig being the superior blademaster out of the two. Your theory of Shaak being present because of superior tactical ability may have some merit, but it doesn't explain why Drallig, Shaak's superior, was left behind to defend the temple instead of fighting Sidious when it's his job to be great with a lightsaber. That is, unless you agree Fisto is better than Shaak.

There's only one sourcebook that says Cin > Shaak, IIRC and even then it's ambiguous who it's referring to. And that'd be more good for Drallig, than bad for Ti.

Originally posted by ILS
He only used the environment to begin with, then blade-locked and monologued to Grievous. After that he cut one of his arms off, slashed his armor and Force pushed him to the ground. After that it was quite even until the MGs showed up. Link to SW.com's quote? I haven't seen it yet.

Yeah, GG visibly pushed him back, and Fisto resorted to using the environment. Then after disarming him, he actually faced him head on and won via Force Push. Not really slappiing someone silly. And here's the quote:

While Gor was destroyed, Grievous himself killed a young Padawan called Nahdar and overwhelmed Kit Fisto in lightsaber combat. The General survived to fight another day.

Taken from: http://www.starwars.com/databank/general-grievous

Originally posted by ILS
Well, here's my take on it; Mace selected the very strongest combatants of those available to defeat Sidious (bearing in mind that in Legends, this was a team that had already been in place circa AotC, going by the Republic comics where Windu assembles the same team for a different operation).

Then we have the temple defence, which is led by Ti and Drallig, with Drallig being the superior blademaster out of the two. Your theory of Shaak being present because of superior tactical ability may have some merit, but it doesn't explain why Drallig, Shaak's superior, was left behind to defend the temple instead of fighting Sidious when it's his job to be great with a lightsaber. That is, unless you agree Fisto is better than Shaak.

Well you can look at this this way: Cin's own tactical abilities are greater than theirs, though he wasn't even placed in charge of the defenses. Or that's just Mace's A-team. It's only he's already picked for missions, even though he had other options.

He also saw those Jedi as more fit to fight by his side than Anakin, and I doubt Agen, Fisto or Tiin are better than Anakin.

Plus, I'd say being put in charge of guarding the Jedi Temple against a possible Sith attack is just as, if not more important, than preventing said Sith attack.

And I'm yet to see proof of Cin being > Shaak.

Originally posted by ILS
It'd be good if someone can dig it up. There was a thread a while ago where both quotes from both books were posted.

There was one quote, posted by Zenwolf I believe and Sel(was Sel there, I cannot remember), Zoltan and I essentially debunked it.

This is hilarious lmao.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
This is hilarious lmao.

Instead of using an appeal to stone, you can try and counter my argument. Though I suppose you aren't as relevant a debater as ILS for me to even care what you find funny, 👆

I honestly don't see Grievous overwhelming Fisto at all in that fight

You guys didn't really debunk it, or at least not for me anyway because I'm not buying that just because of a art depiction and a name.

When Cin Drallig has that exact same thing pretty much, on the exact same page.

If anyone could actually contact the writers or whoever to confirm, that'd be great cause whenever I try to get any answers, I get ignored.

If you could be so kind to point out where Fisto is struggling :/

Where's this "Grievous wasn't fully charged against Fisto" theory coming from? Just curious.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, GG visibly pushed him back, and Fisto resorted to using the environment. Then after disarming him, he actually faced him head on and won via Force Push.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk

1. They clash blades once, Fisto descends into smoke.
2. 0:35, blade-lock and monologue
3. 0:46 Fisto disarms Grievous
[some even enough fighting]
4. 1:01 Fisto slams Grievous' armor then Force pushes him
5. Onward from this they fight somewhat evenly, Fisto visibly being the one who presses forward at the end, and then Grievous' MagnaGuards appear. Fisto flees.

The only point in which Fisto could be viewed as "overwhelmed" would be at the end, when Grievous had help.

Well you can look at this this way: Cin's own tactical abilities are greater than theirs, though he wasn't even placed in charge of the defenses.

Or that's just Mace's A-team. It's only he's already picked for missions, even though he had other options.

He also saw those Jedi as more fit to fight by his side than Anakin, and I doubt Agen, Fisto or Tiin are better than Anakin.

Plus, I'd say being put in charge of guarding the Jedi Temple against a possible Sith attack is just as, if not more important, than preventing said Sith attack.

But more to the point, if Ti is a superior combatant to Kolar, Tiin or Fisto, why didn't Mace bring her instead when confronting the most powerful Sith of the age? Why was she left behind at the temple with Drallig while, by her own admission, "the best" were away to capture or kill Sidious?

Zen, any chance of posting the quote again?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Where's this "Grievous wasn't fully charged against Fisto" theory coming from? Just curious. [/B]