Where to rank Kit Fisto and/or Shaak Ti?

Anakin embarks on a murderous rampage through the halls of the Temple that has been his home for 13 years. He and hundreds of clone troopers kill Jedi swordmaster Cin Drallig, as well as teachers, teens, and younglings.

- Taken from EP 3 Visual Dictionary

1.

With almost all able-bodied Jedi Knights deployed far from Courscant, the training of young Jedi has been cut. Those who remain in residence are left to fend for themselves. Even the Temple's finest swordmaster is no match for Anakin Skywalker and the stormtroopers of the 501st legion.

- Same book

2.

Originally posted by ILS
Uhm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk

1. They clash blades once, Fisto descends into smoke.
2. 0:35, blade-lock and monologue
3. 0:46 Fisto disarms Grievous
[some even enough fighting]
4. 1:01 Fisto slams Grievous' armor then Force pushes him
5. Onward from this they fight somewhat evenly, Fisto visibly being the one who presses forward at the end, and then Grievous' MagnaGuards appear. Fisto flees.

The only point in which Fisto could be viewed as "overwhelmed" would be at the end, when Grievous had help.

I believe near the beginning GG manages to push Fisto back. And the quote refers to Grievous himself overwhelming Fisto in lightsaber combat. Though this could mean Fisto actually had difficulty in outdueling, which means he didn't just easily slap him. Which is what I'm arguing.

Originally posted by ILS
Which is a strange interpretation, given that Fisto, Tiin and Kolar were war generals for 4 years, and Drallig was a lightsaber instructor.

If he's placed as one of the people in charge of guarding the oasis of the Jedi Order, I fail to see how his tactical capabilities wouldn't be sound.

Originally posted by ILS
An A-team Shaak could have been on, but wasn't.

This doesn't make any sense. Dooku was dead at this point, making Sidious the only Sith left. The Jedi weren't aware of Order 66 until it happened. And Agen, Tiin and Fisto were dead before anyone other than Sidious knew the Temple was about to be invaded. Now I could be wrong, but was Ti put in defence of the temple before Order 66 was happening, or after? I don't see why a defence would be rallied before Order 66, because sans that, the only invasion threat is Sidious himself and droids... and if the droids had a snowballs chance in hell of invading the Temple successfully I'm sure they'd have done it by now.[/B][/QUOTE]

Well the Force Unleashed Databank notes that Mace placed Shaak to guard the temple in case he and his strike team fail. He sees Ti as the perfect fall-back option or plan B, in case they don't succeed.

They did know that Palpatine, the Chancellor was the Sith Lord and he would thus be in control of the Republic's armies, or would have another trick up his sleeve. Mace wasn't taking any chances. So it seems like roles of similar importance.

Originally posted by ILS
But more to the point, if Ti is a superior combatant to Kolar, Tiin or Fisto, why didn't Mace bring her instead when confronting the most powerful Sith of the age? Why was she left behind at the temple with Drallig while, by her own admission, "the best" were away to capture or kill Sidious?

Them being "the best", would be her own subjective opinion, much like it's Kenobi's opinion that he and Yoda are considerably less than Mace's strike team. So that's nothing something I'd put much stock into.

As I said, Ti had another role -- to guard the Jedi Temple in case they fail. Mace saw that her own tactical capabilities, and skill, was enough to warrant her as the lead of the Temple if they fail. Which is, again, a role of similar importance if you ask me. Not that Mace's personal preferance in combatants truly decides who's > who.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
1.

2.

The second quote was right next to an image of Shaak Ti, under the title of "Shaak Ti and Stass Allie". And Cin was already mentioned in the same page, and it's stated how he's killed by Anakin.

Unless the publishers are retarded, they wouldn't mention Cin losing to Skywalker twice on the same page, and put one quote next to Cin fightingg Anakin, but then put another next to Shaak Ti and right over Skywalker fighting Kenobi.

One thing to note, the TFU quote about Ti and being charged with Temple defense, is before Cin is put forth as the Temple's head of security, prior to that he was just the Lightsaber Battlemaster.

I'm sure it doesn't really mean much, but just throwing that out there.

Grievous not being fully charged against Fisto and the statement that GG overwhelmed him pretty drastically cuts his credibility imo. I had him as probably a bit under Kenobi on the council. He's probably mid-tier now.

Originally posted by MythLord
The second quote was right next to an image of Shaak Ti, under the title of "Shaak Ti and Stass Allie". And Cin was already mentioned in the same page, and it's stated how he's killed by Anakin.

Unless the publishers are retarded, they wouldn't mention Cin losing to Skywalker twice on the same page, and put one quote next to Cin fightingg Anakin, but then put another next to Shaak Ti and right over Skywalker fighting Kenobi.

Why exactly can't they?

But if you can contact the publishers or whoever to confirm, then please do so. Because whenever I try, I get no response back.

Thx ILS, weird that nobody noticed that sooner.

Anyhow, Ti was put in charge of the Temple before Windu left:

"Master Ti and Gate Master Jurokk will direct the Temple's defense," he said as he reached the others. "We are shutting down all nav beacons and signal lights, we have armed the older Padawans, and all blast doors are sealed and code-locked." His gaze swept the Masters. "It's time to go."

"And Skywalker?" The Zabrak Master cocked his head as though he felt a distant disturbance in the Force. "What of the chosen one?"
"I have sent him to the Council Chamber until our return." Mace Windu turned a grim stare upon the High Council Tower, squinting against the thickening rain. His hands withdrew from his sleeves. One of them held his lightsaber.
--Revenge of the Sith

And this is the quote about (not) Cin:

It's in a paragraph titled for Stass and Shaak, and if that's not enough Cin wasn't even in charge. So I don't see how Cin > Ti is possible.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why exactly can't they?

But if you can contact the publishers or whoever to confirm, then please do so. Because whenever I try, I get no response back.

Give one good reason why it should be Cin besides him being called a swordmaster. Which isn't exactly an unique title.

The quote is from Ti's paragraph you should prove it's about Cin, not the other way around.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan

And this is the quote about (not) Cin:

It's in a paragraph titled for Stass and Shaak, and if that's not enough Cin wasn't even in charge. So I don't see how Cin > Ti is possible.

Yet on the same page, it also mentions Cin as the Jedi swordmaster. Plus he's the only one noted to have fought both Clones and Anakin, which is what both quotes say.

Again. Contact the publishers or whoever to get confirmation, I'm not buying this whole art placement and what not as proof of anything.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why exactly can't they?

But if you can contact the publishers or whoever to confirm, then please do so. Because whenever I try, I get no response back.

Because they're not braindead.

We don't need to contact the publisher to confirm a highly unlikely mistake is a highly unlikely mistake, or that they were referring to Ti or not Cin.

You're essentially using an anicdotal fallacy, at this point. The simplest solution is almost always the correct one(Occams Razor and all that), and in this case the simplest solution is: It's not talking about Cin under a paragraph titled Shaak Ti and Stass Allie, while not even being close to Cin's image, and with Drallig already being mentioned.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Give one good reason why it should be Cin besides him being called a swordmaster. Which isn't exactly an unique title.

The quote is from Ti's paragraph you should prove it's about Cin, not the other way around.

Because all other supplement material point to Cin as being the bigger threat in the Temple.

Insider 87 notes him as being marked a priority target by Vader due to his lightsaber skills alone.

In fact, who has the SW Character Encyclopedia? It's also noted that Cin was the Temple's finest swordmaster during the attack as well.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet on the same page, it also mentions Cin as the Jedi swordmaster. Plus he's the only one noted to have fought both Clones and Anakin, which is what both quotes say.

Again. Contact the publishers or whoever to get confirmation, I'm not buying this whole art placement and what not as proof of anything.

Wow, a swordmaster. Not everyone can be a swordmaster for sure 👆

Anyhow, I don't care what you are buying or not. It's under Ti's name so deal with it or prove it otherwise.

Btw, Shaak was implied to meet Skywalker during Knightfall:

Grievous pushing Fisto back at the end? Yep that's why grievous stopped fighting and let his magnaguards fight 👆
He also said something about power changing hands, admitting Fisto was winning...

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Grievous pushing Fisto back at the end? Yep that's why grievous stopped fighting and let his magnaguards fight 👆
He also said something about power changing hands, admitting Fisto was winning...

Read my argument: "Near the beginning". You legitimately don't have a right to "lmao" at anyone when you can't read the first sentence of an argument, properly.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Wow, a swordmaster. Not everyone can be a swordmaster for sure 👆

Anyhow, I don't care what you are buying or not. It's under Ti's name so deal with it or prove it otherwise.

As THE Swordmaster though?

Anyway, trying. But it's hard to get sources here.

Which argument?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Insider 87 notes him as being marked a priority target by Vader due to his lightsaber skills alone.

Yes, and? There could've been several priority targets. He wasn't the highest priority or anything.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
In fact, who has the SW Character Encyclopedia? It's also noted that Cin was the Temple's finest swordmaster during the attack as well.

Nah:

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes, and? There could've been several priority targets. He wasn't the highest priority or anything.

Nah:

Wrong Encyclopedia. It's the 2011 one.

I have the 2011 one, and it says the same thing.

The Insider source also says there were several high-profile targets during Knightfall.