Originally posted by Zenwolf
Sidious trained him as an assassin and a weapon, he doesn't really need to know any Sorcery related things or what have you. His saber skills and TK abilities among his other few like TP and Stealth, are perfect set for what he was built as.
Originally posted by relentless1
Sidious specifically went out of his way to keep most of the higher functions of the Force from Maul, he was never intended to take over from Sidious. He was a weapon, nothing more.
Nah TCW went out of it's way to show Maul was much more than just an Assassin.
Ventress was Dooku's assassin. Maul wasn't just Sidious's assassin, he was trained as his Sith apprentice.
Maul's quite underrated with regards to the Force, but regardless, yes, his training was based on physical and martial aspects and in relation to the Force, he was pretty much solely trained to hone Force abilities that would be helpful for his tasks as an assassin, and to master his hate.
And yes, I preferred him pre-revival as well.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah TCW went out of it's way to show Maul was much more than just an Assassin.Ventress was Dooku's assassin. Maul wasn't just Sidious's assassin, he was trained as his Sith apprentice.
Even Darth Maul was not specifically trained to fulfill the function of assassin--his purpose was to kill Jedi. Darth Maul was so good at eliminating other impediments to Darth Sidious' plans that the Emperor realized his need for assassins that were less like apprentices and more like operatives.--The Dark Side Sourcebook
Sam Witwer: On The Clone Wars, we had to show that Maul was capable of being a general. Darth Sidious chose him to be his apprentice and trained him well. Maul wasn't just a mindless hitman.👆[...]
You don't just pick a guy because he can do cool flips and swing a sword good. You choose a guy who is brilliant and gifted in so many ways, physically and mentally, and can carry on the Sith tradition proudly. A thuggish hitman would be a hindrance when trying to take over the galaxy. You need someone who can work with you and to whom you can pass the baton when the time comes.
And that's a theme in the Star Wars saga as a whole. It's so very much about Sidious trying to find that successor. He thinks he's found that person in Darth Maul, but then Maul is cut down.
--Sam Witwer on Darth Maul's 'Clone Wars' Fate, Q&A
I think Legends and Canon go separate paths on this issue.
But I'm with Canon on this. Makes no sense to name Maul a Sith Lord/Apprentice if he's just an assassin. Remember Ventress was Dooku's assassin and she was never given the title of Sith.
Nor was Opress (not under Dooku at least). Maul named Opress his Sith apprentice, but he didn't have time to teach him much.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think Legends and Canon go separate paths on this issue.But I'm with Canon on this. Makes no sense to name Maul a Sith Lord/Apprentice if he's just an assassin. Remember Ventress was Dooku's assassin and she was never given the title of Sith.
Nor was Opress (not under Dooku at least). Maul named Opress his Sith apprentice, but he didn't have time to teach him much.
I was pretty much just going by Legends, since that's how it all started with Maul. But yeah, Canon churned out some differences.
Even though TCW is apart of Legends(it actually shouldn't be since it's Canon), but it's also Canon. /Shrug
Tbh I don't think we should use TCW anymore because of that fact, because it has some differences to events and characterizations and all that which makes some Legends stuff kinda bizarre. But that's just me.
Edit: As far as if were also debating Legends too, should specific that.
Maul was never "just an assassin" not in Canon or Legends. Canon just expanded on him cerebrally.
Originally posted by SunRazerHe was described as one of the most highly trained Sith in history, so we've no reason to believe his training was basic. And though his primary role was that of a Jedi Killer (although TCW significantly expanded on that job description) that doesn't at all preclude him having access to more advanced Force abilities, many of which are combat applicable. Especially when he was considered by Palpatine as a legitimate apprentice and a true Sith Lord.
There's no denying that Sidious gifted him with more knowledge than a mere assassin would accomplish, but even the Sith knowledge he gleamed - somebody post a quote for it - IIRC, wasn't anything particularly noteworthy. But I'll have to see the quote again and that could change my opinion.
In fact he shows a lot of advanced abilities in his fight against Jinn and Kenobi, such as concealing his presence in the Force, dulling their own connection to the Force and feeding off Kenobi's rage:
Taken from Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Taken from The Phantom Menace Junior NovelisationObi-Wan had never been in such a lightsaber battle before. So this is a Sith Lord, he thought fleetingly as he dodged and leaped. It was taking every skill he knew just to stay alive. The Sith Lord seemed to cloud Obi-Wan's use of the Force, making it harder to sense his opponent's moves and counter them in time.
Taken from Episode I Journal: Darth MaulThe battle began in the hangar. Darth Maul activated his double-ended lightsaber, a weapon he fashioned himself under my supervision. In his hands this weapon was flawless - or so I thought. He made the Jedi run. They had to use everything they knew and more to meet his skill. They went at him, two on one, and they could not defeat him. No doubt Maul used his formidable dark powers to blunt their use of the Force.
Taken from Jedi vs. Sith The Essential Guide to the ForceNow I don't know about the quote you're referring to, but he is stated to have been instructed by Sidious in Sith lore (and the Jedi arts):When the last laser door lifted, I gave into my anger as I charged the dark warrior. I absolutely wanted to destroy him. He used my anger against me, actually fed off my fury, gaining strength as I exhausted my own.
Where Darth Sidious was a strategist, his fearsome apprentice Darth Maul was a blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order. A Zabrak born on the world of lridonia, the child who would one day be known as Darth Maul was taken offworld and indoctrinated into the ways of the dark side, trained by Darth Sidious in not only Sith lore, but in the Jedi arts.Of which the Banite Sith had stockpiled over the course of 1,000 years.
He's also described as having "far superior" knowledge of the dark side than Mighella, despite her being a master of Force lightning and one of the most powerful of the Dathomirian witches:
Taken from Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual GuideMighella attempts to use an energized sword to stop Darth Maul, then surprises him with a burst of Force Lightning. A moment after Mighella realizes her opponent is a Sith Lord with far superior dark-side knowledge, she is felled by a lethal slash of Maul's lightsaber.
Taken from The Complete Star Wars EncylopediaIn fact I think its pretty telling that it's the point at which Maul tanks' Mighella's lightning that she realises this:One of the more powerful witches of Dathomir, she was taken fom Dathomir by Alexi Garyn, the leader of the criminal organization Black Sun, to serve as his personal bodyguard.
Taken from Star Wars: Darth Maul #04Indicating that he wasn't just powering through it, but actually using his knowledge and mastery over the dark side to negate/dispel it.
And of course we have one of his most impressive showings, namely using some manner of Force technique to survive bisection. Which Kenobi attributes to both his power in the Force and knowledge over the dark side:
Taken from The Clone Wars: The Sith HuntersAnakin Skywalker: Somehow Darth Maul found a way to use the Force to sustain himself.
Taken from The Clone Wars: The Sith HuntersWhich though conjecture on Kenobi's part does carry with it authorial intent, it being a feat that Darth Sidious himself did not think possible, the realisation that it was leading him to rescue Vader:I believe Maul's rage was so powerful, and his knowledge of the Dark Side so great, he simply refuse to die...
Taken from Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious, Star Wars DatabankWhile the Clone Wars continued, Darth Sidious was presented with an unforeseen challenge: the return of his former apprentice, Darth Maul. Maul had, in fact, survived his injuries suffered at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi, and was now amassing power.
Sam Witwer, Darth Maul's 'Clone Wars' Fate Q&ASo yeah, despite not being capable of shooting lightning out of his hands (which he could nonetheless seemingly dispel) and casting spells, he's still highly advanced as a Sith warrior. More advanced than say, the Emperor's Wrath - who is anything but a "mediocre Sith Lord". And definitely more advanced than Ventress, lol.SW: So, it's the perfectionist streak that Palpatine has. And what's really fun to note is that Darth Maul, having survived his grievous injuries, plants the seed in Palpatine's head that maybe you don't give up on these guys so quickly. If they're dead, or you think they've been killed, maybe they're not. Maybe they can survive, maybe they can amount to something. That's something we get to see coming up, Sidious realizing that. That ultimately leads to Darth Vader.
1. Not sure if the one about Sith lore was the one I'm looking for. Hmm...
2. Half of those quotes are the Consume Essence and generic Sith powers, it seems. The "Jedi arts" refers to dueling.
3. The Palpatine being surprised at Maul's survival is kind of weird with new quotes suggesting that Palpatine would be able to replicate that.
4. He's obviously not "mediocre", but he's not particularly amazing with respects to either demonstrated Force feats, provided Force accolades, or shown Force knowledge. Is there anything that provides exposition on what he studied under Sidious/what dark side knowledge he had access to? We'll mostly have to use inference for this, which I don't like (but I can make do with it if necessary).
I'm aware of the "far more knowledgeable than Mighella" stuff but that's hardly special.
And I wasn't suggesting that Ventress was more advanced than Maul - I was saying that Ventress seems to know more dark side powers than Maul does based on exposition, which is just weird, hence why I wanted to find ways around it. I'm just saying that Ventress has stuff like resurrecting the dead which Maul lacks. Obviously Maul should, by any and all reasonable assumption, be more advanced as a dark sider.