The One Above all & The Presence
The One Above is credited in Marvel as being the definitive Master and creator in all of Marvel.
Can the same be extended to DC and applied to the Presence? Or are there external forces that go beyond the Presence?
Can someone give me a clear awnser and point out who is The End All and Be all of DC line?
Bonus: Did we ever figure out who is the equivalent to The Living Tribunal in both power, and stature?
Re: The One Above all & The Presence
Originally posted by "Id"
Can the same be extended to DC and applied to the Presence? Or are there external forces that go beyond the Presence?Can someone give me a clear awnser and point out who is The End All and Be all of DC line?
Originally posted by AstnerSuck it Galan.
And while it can be argued that the Presence could be undone by dreamers. He was still dreamed into existence as the be-all and end-all, so that's what he is.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
But is it confirmed anywhere that TOAA is the creator of the current Beyond Realm, or is that just assumed?
How it's tied together with the Beyond was never established.
Astner has been posting that interview like it actually means something for months now. It was properly shut down by several of us multiple times this thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15483114&%20highlight=sandman+%2318+forumid%3A77+userid%3A9873%3Cbr%20/%3E3#post15483114
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15627394#post15627394
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=619605&pagenumber=21
This is the precise reason *why* writer interviews cannot be used on the forum to retroactively retcon decadeS-worth of on panel material. 🙂
That is idiotic, zop, and outright ignores canon evidence...
As I have mentioned before...
Obviously God(in the sense that we're referencing him in this thread) isn't reliant on the dreams of others to exist. If he were, then Dream of the Endless would hold some degree of power over him. We know this is definitely NOT the case, based on Morpheus himself telling us where his power stood in comparison to Lucifer(who is <<<< The Presence):
Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.
*This is why writer interviews and whatnot aren't admissible as evidence on the forums. Carey is inadvertently trying to faux-retcon decadeS-worth of canon history in a single Twitter response. Doesn't work that way, lol.
I have a quick question...
Who created "the earlier creation" that mentioned in the letter page of Lucifer #29?
Also, in Lucifer: Nirvana that mentioned like earlier crude creation:
Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.
Doesn't work that way, lol.
We already have on panel proof that outside forces influence Vertigo's "God". The "Dream of a Thousand Cats" story makes perfect sense in a comic setting. Humans dreamed up "God".
@backup
Excellent point regarding the Silk Man and his creator (who is NOT Vertigo's "God"😉.
Originally posted by Galan007
That is idiotic, zop, and outright ignores canon evidence...As I have mentioned before...
Obviously God(in the sense that we're referencing him in this thread) isn't reliant on the dreams of others to exist. If he were, then Dream of the Endless would hold some degree of power over him. We know this is definitely NOT the case, based on Morpheus himself telling us where his power stood in comparison to Lucifer(who is <<<< The Presence):
Destiny—the oldest of them, and older than Dream—clearly didn't exist before Presence's plan which can't have existed before the Presence; who was created by the dreamers or "external forces."
Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, if The Presence were reliant on the dreams of others to exist, then the dreamers would have to predate him--which they obviously/canonically do not. First came The Presence. Then came Michael/Lucifer. Then came everything else.
"So they dreamed the world into the form it is now?"
"Not exactly."
"They dreamed the world so it ALWAYS WAS the way it is now, little one. There WAS never a world of high cat-ladies and cat-lords. They change the universe from the beginning of all things, until the end of time."
Originally posted by backup
I have a quick question...Who created "the earlier creation" that mentioned in the letter page of Lucifer #29?
Also, in Lucifer: Nirvana that mentioned like earlier crude creation:
"And most of the older realms are empty now. They can be left to wind down by themselves. But there's a sort of—subbasement I think it's prehuman. Built out of the fears and hopes of animals. Maybe the animals that became men."
Originally posted by krisblazeWTF DID YOU JUST SAY!?!?!?!?
Emperor couldn't even kill ****ing Horus lmao
1. He could and did.
2. He was holding back immensely against him.
3. It says something that once he stopped holding back, he oneshotted him and destroyed his soul while doing it.
SAY SOMETHING AGAIN. I DARE YOU; I DOUBLE DARE YOU.
