@ Astner
Not sure how your post, in any way/shape/form, implies that the Dreamers predate the Presence?
Additionally, more recent canon tells us that Time and Night were not only the first concepts in existence, but their union is what birthed creation(ALL versions of it) and also created The Endless:
http://i.imgur.com/hU2feOZ.jpg
In fact, Night(who embodies void/nothingness) actually predates 'the beginning'... And Time is who created/gave Destiny his Book.
But yeah, keep relying on a blurb from Twitter... Especially when it is explicitly contradicted by yearS-worth of canon. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, more recent canon tells us that Time and Night were not only the first concepts in existence, but their union is what birthed creation(ALL versions of it) and also created The Endless:
http://i.imgur.com/hU2feOZ.jpg
Originally posted by krisblaze👆
There are conflicting statements in the comics.
In one instance Death implied that Lucifer+Michael created Yahweh's cosmos:
http://i.imgur.com/5xmr5du.jpg
In another instance, the exact opposite was stated by the narrator:
http://i.imgur.com/lqV8TGg.jpg
...The latter makes more sense in regard to meshing current Gaiman-canon.
Originally posted by krisblazeI wish this were the case... 🙁
But surely no one would believe such a ludicrous idea as dreamers predating the force that created them? 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps they created the concept of Time and Night and forced their union, which spawned creation..?Unsure exactly how Carey-canon meshes with current Gaiman-canon. /shrug
Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?
Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:
Originally posted by backup
Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:
Originally posted by backupI have no idea what you're asking/saying..?
Hey Galan, did not exist one time before of time itself?Cause in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War #6 mentioned this:
Originally posted by "Id"That would be Starlin's take on The Presence, as described by Synnar. 😘
Who are they referring to when they mention thr Supreme One.
Originally posted by Galan007
Not sure how your post, in any way/shape/form, implies that the Dreamers predate the Presence?
"They dreamed the world so it ALWAYS WAS the way it is now, little one. There WAS never a world of high cat-ladies and cat-lords. They change the universe from the beginning of all things, until the end of time."
Originally posted by Galan007
But yeah, keep relying on a blurb from Twitter... Especially when it is explicitly contradicted by yearS-worth of canon. 👆
And like I pointed out earlier it's not just according to Mike Carey, there are hints of it in the story. The prehuman subbasement of reality shaped by the dreams and fears of animals that Elaine found when she became God is clearly another reference to Niel Gaiman's A Dream of a Thousand Cats.
Furthermore I don't see why Mike Carey would lie when answering a question regarding a reference.
Originally posted by AstnerIf they changed reality so that it was *always* that way, then how in the heck does Morpheus still know about it..? Are you starting to see the glaring contradictions here..?
They did not predate the Presence. The dreamers changed the past, so that the Presence would be their creator."They dreamed the world so it ALWAYS WAS the way it is now, little one. There WAS never a world of high cat-ladies and cat-lords. They change the universe from the beginning of all things, until the end of time."
Anyway, I find it extremely faulty that you're cherry-picking a single issue that is the better part of 30 years old, and disregarding decadeS-worth of DC/Vertigo canon, which tells us that The Presence... And The Presence alone... Was responsible for birthing creation. Dreamers played absolutely NO part in it.
Hell, I literally just showed you a very recent scan from Gaiman himself(same guy who wrote your cat issue) which states that the union between Time and Night was responsible for spawning ALL versions of creation, along with The Endless themselves, and most importantly: DREAMERS:
Why are you ignoring that?
But yeah, cling to the notion that, on some level, Morpheus holds a degree of power over The Presence, given that he was shaped by the very concept Morpheus embodies. Again, makes perfect sense. 👆
Originally posted by Astner😂
Furthermore I don't see why Mike Carey would lie when answering a question regarding a reference.
Brevoort said in interviews that The End is non-canon and that Sentry beat a peak Molecule Man. Pak compared Hulk to Galactus in an interview. Jason said Hulk is the most powerful being in the universe. etc. etc. etc.
It's not uncommon for writers to try and add shit to their stories after the fact via interviews. In this case, we have Carey trying to faux-retcon decadeS-worth of established canon almost 10 years after he finished writing Lucifer... With a single Twitter response.
Lol, it obviously doesn't work that way.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Carey was more likely alluding to the notion that comics come from the imaginations/dreams of people. We're talking real people here, not comic book denizens.
Real people (let's call them "dreamers"😉 create comics. Dreamers create characters and stories, and then years/decades later dreamers build on, expand, alter, and manipulate those stories. In that way they continue on and grow.
Totally like him to be vague as phuck (and not to write an essay on Twitter)
Originally posted by Galan007Time and Night was responsible for spawning ALL versions of creation,
along with The Endless themselves, and most importantly: DREAMERS:
In Marvel, Eternity, embodies "Time" ... and Oblivion, embodies the first "Night."
(devil's advocate inquiry) Is it possible the cats created that too? If they supposedly made the Presence, why stop there?
Originally posted by Galan007Pak compared Hulk to Galactus in an interview.
Originally posted by Mr MasterTime and Night are the beings who embody said concepts -- those are their names.
Interesting. So, who in DC/Vertigo/whathaveyou embodies these Concepts?
Here is Time(the father):
http://i.imgur.com/2ltKTa8.jpg
Here is Night(the mother):
http://i.imgur.com/qPBDaK1.jpg
Originally posted by Mr MasterNo. They are responsible for creating "ALL" versions of the universe, along with The Endless AND dreamers. IOW, they created the dreamers, not the other way around.
(devil's advocate inquiry) Is it possible the cats created that too? If they supposedly made the Presence, why stop there?
...And since Destiny is their child, we know they predate him, which means they predate the official beginning of all things.
Originally posted by Mr MasterPak's an idiot.
🤨 ... I can't believe that. I believe you, but wtf?
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The Above-All-Others is the Marvel's equivalent of the Primal Monitor.
The Primal Monitor is meta-fictional, representing the blank page. Marvel has no corresponding concept in its cosmology.
God/The Presence (DC) represents the avatar for the DC writers, just as God/TOAA is the same for Marvel.
Originally posted by Cogito
I said it before and I'll say it again: Carey was more likely alluding to the notion that comics come from the imaginations/dreams of people. We're talking real people here, not comic book denizens.Real people (let's call them "dreamers"😉 create comics. Dreamers create characters and stories, and then years/decades later dreamers build on, expand, alter, and manipulate those stories. In that way they continue on and grow.
Originally posted by Cogito
Totally like him to be vague as phuck (and not to write an essay on Twitter)
