"The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon.
I love how you think this quote runs across the board for all content, rather than a concept specific to Lucas.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I love how you think this quote runs across the board for all content, rather than a concept specific to Lucas.
I'm not stating it's G-Canon though. The difference between G-Canon and C-Canon is that Lucas is saying it, yes. But if Lucas's script is still G-Canon, someone else's script should still be C-Canon. It's pretty obvious.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Chee says that deleted scenes are canon unless they contradict existing continuity, applying that logic to KOTOR II cut content, anything that contradicts the vanilla game (i.e. Kreia ragdolling the masters instead of just draining them) should be considered non-canon, but I agree there is no logic behind considering shit non-canon when it isn't contradicted.Problem is however deleted content, and even fan-made content, is readily used as evidence without any context given, so its important that if used it can be backed up with some proof that it would have made it into the final game.
Finally, anyone who treats TLSRCM as canon, should treat the unwritten Ahsoka story arcs as canon too. 🙂
Agreed, and you'll remember I opposed that feat long before you did.
Almost all other content is from the game files and not fan content, however. The reason we all know about the council feat is because me and Ant used to go through the game files looking for shit, and I noticed both versions of the trial were in the same script...
All other feats are in the script, from the Sion extract that I already posted to the party scene on Malachor.
[{Mild contempt, doesn't even bother getting up}Children with lightsabers... {smiles contemptuously, beat}but not Jedi, I think.{[Gameplay Programmer: Kreia gets up.]}Come close, let me look upon you and see what the exile's teaching has forged. {[Gameplay Programmer: Looks across the "heroes," camera pans across them - just do a series of close ups if we have no animated camera]}An assassin, a slayer of her own kin, a blinded slave... and a fool.{Indulgent}Which of you wishes to try yourselves against me? As you can see, I am unarmed.You, perhaps? Come, child, where you walk, it is not far from battle, slaughter, and the blood of your sisters.{[Handmaiden attacks, Kreia barely moves, deftly avoiding every blow, then gets bored, and grabs the Handmaiden by the throat, or in a Force Crush.]}Think. Think before you throw away your life for him. Think of everything you will lose by dying.Your lusts unfulfilled. A dance, unfinished. A love, requited. Think before you give it up so quickly.{[Gameplay Programmer: Kreia turns to Visas.]}And you, blind one, you have hungered to strike me down ever since you saw the bond the exile and I share.Can you feel the Force running through me, even past the veil, past your bloodied eyes? You know you cannot win. The Force runs strong within you, Traya, but in the howling of a storm, it is difficult to hear the whisper of the blade. You have forever been the blind one. You were given a gift few are ever given, and yet you let your gift of sight warp you, tw-{[Calm, like a surgeon, Kreia does Force Crush, lifting Visas up.]}You think your existence under your Lord was torture, Miraluka? I will make you see.[/B]
I don't think I ever denied the TCW arcs were not canon mmm
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Umm no... Lucas is a very clear exception to the rule when it comes to authority. For example, he's the only person who's personal statements are counted as G- level canon. I'm sorry to say that Avellone, does not share this privilege.
If only you could counter every quote with opinion.
Shame 🙂
Originally posted by SelenialYeah I'm making general statements. There is some stuff like Kreia taking on the Exile's apprentices that I have my doubts on though, as I've seen several versions of it that are not compatible with one another.
Agreed, and you'll remember I opposed that feat long before you did.Almost all other content is from the game files and not fan content, however. The reason we all know about the council feat is because me and Ant used to go through the game files looking for shit, and I noticed both versions of the trial were in the same script...
All other feats are in the script, from the Sion extract that I already posted to the party scene on Malachor.
I don't think I ever denied the TCW arcs were not canon mmm
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah I'm making general statements. There is some stuff like Kreia taking on the Exile's apprentices that I have my doubts on though, as I've seen several versions of it that are not compatible with one another.
Taking on the apprentices when?
Honestly, if anyone has questions on a scene it's quite easy to find the original intention for the scene. I can try and help if you have specific examples, this thread was supposed to end the debate after all mmm
As I said, it can be deciphered using the In Game Files. They're definitely dealt with one at a time, and the gif where they are not comes from a very early draft of the malachor ending mod, that was eventually updated to the correct way.
There is definitely a section of the script that calls for Atton to attack her alone, the fight is described as "short, quick, brutal" but this is before the party is dealt with. So it fits with that scene. It appears he flees after this, to either survive or die in the end of the game in the Exile's hands.
To be fair to the modders, the script is hard to decipher in terms of sequence of events, but the events themselves are incredibly clear.
My reading of this area would be the following:
[list][*]Party attacks Traya. She deals with each separately, Atton first though after attempting to ambush her.
[*]Atton flees.
[*]Atton bumps into Sion in the hall.
[*]Defeats or is defeated by Sion depending on player's controls. Regroups with the Exile's party after they're freed and meets The Exile in the core.[/list]
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Wasn't it also a talking point that not everything added in TLSRCM was even from the scripts? As I recall, some things (like Traya ragdolling the masters individually) were just added at the whim of the modders.
Yes, like I said to Beni, there are very few inconsistencies like that, and almost all have been outed as untrue. The Council scene, for example, seems to have been edited based on the haphazard words of an author during a Q&A, not on the script.
Like I said though, anyone who knows KOTOR II has been opposed to that scene since it's inception, I haven't used it since the versus series on the SWTOR boards where I discovered it not being in the game files...
By the way, the Malachor cutscene is implemented in different ways, but it's still in the script. The former one with them attacking one at a time (instead of Traya Choking three at once) is the one that appears most of the time, so that's probably the one we take.
Traya Crushing and Choking the Masters is also in the script.
Originally posted by SunRazer
By the way, the Malachor cutscene is implemented in different ways, but it's still in the script. The former one with them attacking one at a time (instead of Traya Choking three at once) is the one that appears most of the time, so that's probably the one we take.Traya Crushing and Choking the Masters is also in the script.
Quotes for those? Checking through the game files is a *****, but upon glancing through earlier I didn't notice either of those in it...