Iron Fist/w Prep vs Batman, Cassandra Cain, & Nightwing

Originally posted by cdtm
Without chi amping, sure. With it, it's debatable. He's crushed handguns with a chi amped hand, ripped up steel doors, punched out about five robots where Luke Cage couldn't even dent one..

Plus, there's Spidey's performance against Davos. And even more damning, Danny's clean defeat of Black Tarantula.

Tarantula's been kind of understated lately, but I know a lot of posters here know just how uber he is.. The guy could give Gorgon a run for his money, with his feats.

He's ignored being riddled with bullets, been caught in an explosion and fought while on fire, and toyed with Spider-Man. Twice.

Danny beat THAT Tarantula.

Yeah, I have that issue too.

Power Man & Iron Fist v3 #2

Originally posted by cdtm
Danny beat THAT Tarantula.

were these scans shown, cuz in all the scan spamming i think i missed it....?

You missed an example of ABC logic? No big. 😛

Originally posted by riv6672
You missed an example of ABC logic? No big. 😛

Heck with ABC logic. Beating an uber guy's beating an uber guy.

And Black Tarantula is uber indeed. (I'm not sure anyone's actually posted the scans, Leo. I'll see about getting some up myself.

And btw, Power Man and Iron Fist isn't half bad. It's sort of a lighthearted "Perfect Strangers" drama, with Cage playing Larry and Danny as a kung fu Balki. 🙂 )

They're literally at the top of this page.

Originally posted by Sharivan
Yeah, I have that issue too.

Power Man & Iron Fist v3 #2

As seen here if you guys didn't see it.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

Nice sucker punch? 😕

Originally posted by cdtm
Heck with ABC logic. Beating an uber guy's beating an uber guy.

And Black Tarantula is uber indeed. (I'm not sure anyone's actually posted the scans, Leo. I'll see about getting some up myself.

And btw, Power Man and Iron Fist isn't half bad. It's sort of a lighthearted "Perfect Strangers" drama, with Cage playing Larry and Danny as a kung fu Balki. 🙂 )

lol my bad. i basically replied to your post on the previous page but didn't look at the scans at the top of THIS page--just replied and logged off.

anyway....i'm not willing to put much stock in that little scrimmage. call it picking and choosing, call it willfully ignoring, whatever. i mean a couple hits and he's out after the punishment spidey dished out? even his speech pattern was all different. no eye blasts? i'm always hesitant to call PIS but that was pretty ridiculous. in those spidey arcs he was sot of a big deal and here here he is suddenly teamed with a double-zz lister gorilla man?? lol that is either a different guy in the costume, or that is one of the dumbest things i've seen. either way, i'm not gonna put much weight on that showing...

Originally posted by cdtm
Nice sucker punch? 😕

Nice not "Nuke-level durability" ?

Any of the team can one-shot him, the team godstomps.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol my bad. i basically replied to your post on the previous page but didn't look at the scans at the top of THIS page--just replied and logged off.

anyway....i'm not willing to put much stock in that little scrimmage. call it picking and choosing, call it willfully ignoring, whatever. i mean a couple hits and he's out after the punishment spidey dished out? even his speech pattern was all different. no eye blasts? i'm always hesitant to call PIS but that was pretty ridiculous. in those spidey arcs he was sot of a big deal and here here he is suddenly teamed with a double-zz lister gorilla man?? lol that is either a different guy in the costume, or that is one of the dumbest things i've seen. either way, i'm not gonna put much weight on that showing...

Yet, apparently the showing RealityWarper brought up makes sense despite everything else that I posted? You see, this is why fights should be generally ignored. They're so ridiculous that I could use them to argue that Deadpool is more powerful than Odin.

They're so ridiculous I could use them to argue that Batman is faster than light, and can destroy planets. No, it doesn't matter if he does things that don't make sense.

You don't get to hand-wave something that ridiculous without things outside of the fight supporting it.

It boggles the mind that someone would rely on those first and foremost without providing feats outside of those instances in order to justify them.

What has Black Tarantula done, outside of his showings over other characters, that suggests he could hurt Daniel Rand or survive a single Iron Fist from him?

Deadpool was amped by Death there.

And team still wins.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol my bad. i basically replied to your post on the previous page but didn't look at the scans at the top of THIS page--just replied and logged off.

anyway....i'm not willing to put much stock in that little scrimmage. call it picking and choosing, call it willfully ignoring, whatever. i mean a couple hits and he's out after the punishment spidey dished out? even his speech pattern was all different. no eye blasts? i'm always hesitant to call PIS but that was pretty ridiculous. in those spidey arcs he was sot of a big deal and here here he is suddenly teamed with a double-zz lister gorilla man?? lol that is either a different guy in the costume, or that is one of the dumbest things i've seen. either way, i'm not gonna put much weight on that showing...

Full disclosure, I wasn't too happy about the BT showdown either. Yeah, he's seen better days. And it IS a pretty lighthearted series, about two steps away from parody.

But hey a feats a feat. I'm just throwing them on the pile, let everyone judge for themselves. 🙂

Edit: Gonna throw in a P.S.

Sharivan has a point. Danny downing s guy Spidey couldn't isn't much worse then Batman bloodying up Grundy, much less hurting Wonder Woman.

Maybe less bad, if you consider Rand managed to take out the Wrecking Crew without the IF, or KO a Cage level guy name Warhawk without it, plus bloodying Cage himself. (Warhawk especially is a fun study of differing writer showings, as one writer had him fail to even hurt Warhawk, and four issues later Claremont (Teaming with another writer) makes him KO him sans Iron Fist. And Claremont himself had Danny nearly break an elbow on his head in an earlier story!)

Originally posted by abhilegend
Deadpool was amped by Death there.

Still doesn't justify it.

As Death isn't in Eternity's bracket, and is definitely below him in the cosmic hierarchy. Yet, that's all it took for Deadpool to threaten him?

More importantly, Deadpool was able to hurt Thanos here after he was depowered.

Which of course you're going to try to argue that's because of piercing damage =/= blunt damage. When the fact is it's just plain retarded. As you yourself laughed at how ridiculous it was in the Character Ownage thread.

And team still wins.

The team still loses, and pretty badly at that.

Originally posted by Sharivan
Yet, apparently the showing RealityWarper brought up makes sense despite everything else that I posted? You see, this is why fights should be generally ignored. They're so ridiculous that I could use them to argue that Deadpool is more powerful than Odin.

They're so ridiculous I could use them to argue that Batman is faster than light, and can destroy planets. No, it doesn't matter if he does things that don't make sense.

You don't get to hand-wave something that ridiculous without things outside of the fight supporting it.

It boggles the mind that someone would rely on those first and foremost without providing feats outside of those instances in order to justify them.

What has Black Tarantula done, outside of his showings over other characters, that suggests he could hurt Daniel Rand or survive a single Iron Fist from him?

outside his showings with other characters....? i don't even know what that is supposed to mean. he doesn't have hardly any appearances and really nothing that shows anything outside his spiderman fight.... those above scans don't even appear to me to be the same character.

and like i said, i can decide to pick and choose if i personally feel the feat is suspect or pis. i think you're talking about all the batman scans abhi. you can hand-wave them away if you feel they are pis. don't matter to me, like i think the bt/if 'fight' is ridiculous. bats has a HOST of uber ridiculous feats though. someone asked about where you draw the line. with bats it's hard, but you seem to have drawn your own. c'est la vie. likewise though, i draw a line at that representation of bt. he's utterly tanked several full blown blows from spiderman. danny kicks him once or twice and its over? not in my book i'm afraid. we all get to pick and choose based on what we know. i know that is a ridiculous showing in a parody book. no more complex than that.

Originally posted by cdtm
Full disclosure, I wasn't too happy about the BT showdown either. Yeah, he's seen better days. And it IS a pretty lighthearted series, about two steps away from parody.

But hey a feats a feat. I'm just throwing them on the pile, let everyone judge for themselves. 🙂

sure, just that some carry a lot more weight than others is all. but i get why it was shown. 👆

Edit: Gonna throw in a P.S.

Sharivan has a point. Danny downing s guy Spidey couldn't isn't much worse then Batman bloodying up Grundy, much less hurting Wonder Woman.

i agree. if it were an actual fight and danny won using an IF, if bt used some blasts, put up a fight, etc.... that'd be way different. the way that fight happened though? like i said a couple times--i'll pass on that feat.

Maybe less bad, if you consider Rand managed to take out the Wrecking Crew without the IF, or KO a Cage level guy name Warhawk without it, plus bloodying Cage himself. (Warhawk especially is a fun study of differing writer showings, as one writer had him fail to even hurt Warhawk, and four issues later Claremont (Teaming with another writer) makes him KO him sans Iron Fist. And Claremont himself had Danny nearly break an elbow on his head in an earlier story!) [/B]

yeah i remember the wrecking crew story. ask km if that was PIS... 😂

anyway those guys are all over the map. one time they beat down thor (hell the wrecker himself has some pretty uber feats) and herc, the next they look like chumps. pis? meh, i dunno. depends on which crew feats you choose. seems like a lot of hand waving of batman feats is all, while all of danny's feats are supposed to be taken clearly at face value. when one side has all feats ignored, and the other expects all feats to be completely accepted, well, that type of thread will never lead to anything but trouble. it's not a debate at that point because whatever one shows will simply be dismissed or relegated to PIS, so....what's the point of discussion if one side's feats will be ignored?

imo team still wins this though. /shrug

There is so much PIS in Marvel those days...
Heck... Why isn't IF simply immune to everything as he shrugg off nukes and one-shot anyone...

Originally posted by leonidas
outside his showings with other characters....? i don't even know what that is supposed to mean. he doesn't have hardly any appearances and really nothing that shows anything outside his spiderman fight.... those above scans don't even appear to me to be the same character.

and like i said, i can decide to pick and choose if i personally feel the feat is suspect or pis. i think you're talking about all the batman scans abhi. you can hand-wave them away if you feel they are pis. don't matter to me, like i think the bt/if 'fight' is ridiculous. bats has a HOST of uber ridiculous feats though. someone asked about where you draw the line. with bats it's hard, but you seem to have drawn your own. c'est la vie. likewise though, i draw a line at that representation of bt. he's utterly tanked several full blown blows from spiderman. danny kicks him once or twice and its over? not in my book i'm afraid. we all get to pick and choose based on what we know. i know that is a ridiculous showing in a parody book. no more complex than that.

sure, just that some carry a lot more weight than others is all. but i get why it was shown. 👆

i agree. if it were an actual fight and danny won using an IF, if bt used some blasts, put up a fight, etc.... that'd be way different. the way that fight happened though? like i said a couple times--i'll pass on that feat.

yeah i remember the wrecking crew story. ask km if that was PIS... 😂

anyway those guys are all over the map. one time they beat down thor (hell the wrecker himself has some pretty uber feats) and herc, the next they look like chumps. pis? meh, i dunno. depends on which crew feats you choose. seems like a lot of hand waving of batman feats is all, while all of danny's feats are supposed to be taken clearly at face value. when one side has all feats ignored, and the other expects all feats to be completely accepted, well, that type of thread will never lead to anything but trouble. it's not a debate at that point because whatever one shows will simply be dismissed or relegated to PIS, so....what's the point of discussion if one side's feats will be ignored?

imo team still wins this though. /shrug

That last part you said is the real problem in these threads. There's PIS, and there's lowballing. And I'm seeing a LOT of lowballing, all across the map..

Originally posted by cdtm
That last part you said is the real problem in these threads. There's PIS, and there's lowballing. And I'm seeing a LOT of lowballing, all across the map..

There is a difference between lowballing (posting only low showings of a character on purpose) and debunking a claim (the supposed IF nuke-level durability).

Originally posted by leonidas
outside his showings with other characters....? i don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

It should be pretty obvious. An instance that you can't argue is PIS or CIS that's more on an individual scale. Say surviving an IED or dodging bullets. That sort of thing.

he doesn't have hardly any appearances and really nothing that shows anything outside his spiderman fight....

Which makes it problematic to use him within a versus context. if he has so few feats outside of his showings over other charters.

those above scans don't even appear to me to be the same character.

It's established in the very first scan there that it is Black Tarantula.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29398483/Power_Man_and_Iron_Fist_2016-_002-008.jpg.html

and like i said, i can decide to pick and choose if i personally feel the feat is suspect or pis.

Alright then.

No explain why you think that using evidence to justify Black Tarantula's showings over other characters.

i think you're talking about all the batman scans abhi. you can hand-wave them away if you feel they are pis.

Due to the fact that Batman has nothing outside his showings over other characters that justifies it in any way. Which was my reasoning. What's yours?

don't matter to me, like i think the bt/if 'fight' is ridiculous.

Okay then, why was it ridiculous? Also, don't say "it wasn't Black Tarantula."

bats has a HOST of uber ridiculous feats though.

Show me his feats outside of his showings over other characters that justifies him being faster than light, and splitting planets in half with his fists.

someone asked about where you draw the line.

Which I already answered, and the response that was given back to me was "well, Batman does some weird things so obviously no limit to his abilities and everything he does is justifiable."

Which is a load of horseshit.

Particularly since this only applies to Batman, and no one else in this thread. Showing yet another double standard.

with bats it's hard, but you seem to have drawn your own.

No, it isn't.

His popularity allows him to do far better against characters he has no right to be fighting.

That's it.

c'est la vie. likewise though, i draw a line at that representation of bt.

Which you haven't justified with any evidence outside of Black Tarantula's showings over other characters.

he's utterly tanked several full blown blows from spiderman. danny kicks him once or twice and its over?

Yes, because Spiderman isn't the one who taken down entire helicarriers in a single blow. Spiderman isn't the one who hit so hard he destroy interdimensional portals. Spiderman isn't the one who can destroy entire buildings with his punches.

not in my book i'm afraid.

Okay, that's your subjective opinion.

we all get to pick and choose based on what we know. i know that is a ridiculous showing in a parody book. no more complex than that.

That's not the point which is flying over your head. In comic books fights almost never make sense. You can't pick and choose which ones are acceptable for no reason.

You need something outside of those fights that justifies it.