Originally posted by abhilegend
Beat Mordru easily. Getting called in the same class as Infinite Man and Time Trapper.
We don't see exactly how he defeated him. For all we know he could have utilized his weakness, with which even Superboy has beaten him in the past. Also the whole GDS was questionable to begin with since he absorbed artifacts prior.
We've debated this in the past I think, but ill repeat:
1) Getting called in the same class means jack squat. They were referring to his threat level. And Darkseid is best known for GDS in the legion continuity so they're obviously referring to that version.
2) When those statements were being made TT hadn't performed his top feats iirc.
3) Any villain worth a damn was called as being in the same class as TT back in the days. Stargrave is an example, and he was only trans level.
Darkseid has a bunch of nice feats, BFRing IM and sealing the entire dimension; he also created and uncreated Validus (although it's questionable whether he was amped), swatted the black racer, but he simply hasn't been nearly as impressive as Odin.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What has Odin done? Stalemated by Jane Thor whole being bloodlusted?
You summed up Odin's history pretty nicely. No argument there 👆
I know my post isn't as constructive and objective as yours but take a look at my collection of Odin's feats:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=599170&pagenumber=6
It's in the 3rd post of the page.
Originally posted by operator616
We don't see exactly how he defeated him. For all we know he could have utilized his weakness, with which even Superboy has beaten him in the past. Also the whole GDS was questionable to begin with since he absorbed artifacts prior.
Wut? He defeated and absorbed Mordru's power.
1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-291-03.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-291-14.jpg
We've debated this in the past I think, but ill repeat:
1) Getting called in the same class means jack squat. They were referring to his threat level. And Darkseid is best known for GDS in the legion continuity so they're obviously referring to that version.
Haha, what? Getting called in the same power class as Infinite Man and Time Trapper doesn't mean anything?
2) When those statements were being made TT hadn't performed his top feats iirc.
Bullshit.
3) Any villain worth a damn was called as being in the same class as TT back in the days. Stargrave is an example, and he was only trans level.
Another lowball, eh? Stargrave had only lip service. Darkseid actually put Mon-El into coma with one blast which neither Trapper nor an amped Infinite Man could do that.
Darkseid has a bunch of nice feats, BFRing IM and sealing the entire dimension; he also created and uncreated Validus (although it's questionable whether he was amped), swatted the black racer, but he simply hasn't been nearly as impressive as Odin.
Its quite opposite. Odin has never been as impressive as Darkseid.
You summed up Odin's history pretty nicely. No argument there 👆
Good to know. Compare Jane Thor making him bounce around solar system like a ping pong ball to Darkseid oneshotting Mon-el into coma.
I know my post isn't as constructive and objective as yours but take a look at my collection of Odin's feats:If only I gave a shit about space cheese.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=599170&pagenumber=6
It's in the 3rd post of the page.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? He defeated and absorbed Mordru's power.1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-291-03.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-291-14.jpg
So he defeated him off-panel, not sure why you're showing me this. Either way though
1) he had already absorbed artifacts
2) Odin > Mordru.
3) we see Mordru basically buried. Which is his weakness. If he's buried/isolated he becomes powerless.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? Getting called in the same power class as Infinite Man and Time Trapper doesn't mean anything?
Here we go again with the hahas and the bullshits.
You are completely missing the context of these statements. They were referring to GDS darkseid.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Bullshit.
Why the hostility?
Tell me again what did TT do till that point? You do realize TT was created as a master mind criminal kind of villain initially and was gradually getting more and more powerful with time. His major feats all occurred after the GDS saga. That much is a fact.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Another lowball, eh? Stargrave had only lip service. Darkseid actually put Mon-El into coma with one blast which neither Trapper nor an amped Infinite Man could do that.
Stargrave sealed dimensional warps and was handling the legionnaires.
Again, amped Darkseid. And TT was toying with Mon-El.
Originally posted by operator616
So he defeated him off-panel, not sure why you're showing me this. Either way though
Off panel? He defeated Mordru on panel as seen here.
1) he had already absorbed artifacts
Which didn't come close to bring him at full power.
2) Odin > Mordru.
Not in his wildest dreams.
3) we see Mordru basically buried. Which is his weakness. If he's buried/isolated he becomes powerless.
Its a psychological fear. Its not kryptonite which actually weakens Mordru.
Here we go again with the hahas and the bullshits.
For you that's enough.
You are completely missing the context of these statements. They were referring to GDS darkseid.
Whose power had waned over the years.
Why the hostility?
Who is hostile?
Tell me again what did TT do till that point? You do realize TT was created as a master mind criminal kind of villain initially and was gradually getting more and more powerful with time. His major feats all occurred after the GDS saga. That much is a fact.
He wasn't retconned and neither did he become more powerful.
And his power was already shown when stopped Superman from travelling in time and destroyed all possible futures using GL energy in one Superman issue.
Stargrave sealed dimensional warps and was handling the legionnaires.
So? How is anyone handling the LOSH is merely trans?
Again, amped Darkseid. And TT was toying with Mon-El.
He wasn't amped. That's another of your bullshit claims.
Time Trapper was trying to kill Mon-El. And an amped Infinite Man was compared to Darkseid.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Off panel? He defeated Mordru on panel as seen here.
Right, I never paid attention to the last panel for some reason. But anyway, it was a cheap shot and Darkseid was amped.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a psychological fear. Its not kryptonite which actually weakens Mordru.
...ok? It still depowers him.
Originally posted by abhilegend
For you that's enough.
?
Not sure what you mean by that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Whose power had waned over the years.
We've been over this.
1st amp: excalibur sword:
http://i.imgur.com/4rrgzu6.jpg
2nd amp: orb of orthanax
http://i.imgur.com/Or6ZaYF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xKwuJMk.jpg
3rd amp: mordru
http://i.imgur.com/ULrS9XA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ok3ytaP.jpg
4th amp: time trapper/Controller.
http://i.imgur.com/V7pWWZ0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sIvAev0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lYPWg4m.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't retconned and neither did he become more powerful.And his power was already shown when stopped Superman from travelling in time and destroyed all possible futures using GL energy in one Superman issue.
This is completely wrong, and ill post scans if you want. Ill prove it beyond all doubt, believe me. TT actually used conventional weaponry in his early appearances in Adventure Comics and was nowhere near the reality warper he became later on. The superman issue which you referenced is a prime example of this. It explicitly stated that he arranged the GL energy to go to the time dimension which you was used to destroy the possible futures. It wasn't even his power that destroyed them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So? How is anyone handling the LOSH is merely trans?
Not the entire legion. He was handling lightning lad, cosmic boy and sun boy. Doesn't exactly require a skyfather to do that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't amped. That's another of your bullshit claims.Time Trapper was trying to kill Mon-El. And an amped Infinite Man was compared to Darkseid.
Already proved it in the scans above. Onto the second part.
http://imgur.com/mREtyOs
http://imgur.com/zQW0trP
TT was basically standing there, no-selling Mon-El's attacks and looking at him getting owned without lifting so much as a finger. 😂
Originally posted by operator616
Right, I never paid attention to the last panel for some reason. But anyway, it was a cheap shot and Darkseid was amped.
Cheapshot? Mordru is looking right at him and gets beaten by a wave of his hand.
...ok? It still depowers him.
And he was freed from that prison which restores him at full power.
?Not sure what you mean by that.
😂
You should understand quite easily.
We've been over this.1st amp: excalibur sword:
http://i.imgur.com/4rrgzu6.jpg
2nd amp: orb of orthanax
http://i.imgur.com/Or6ZaYF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xKwuJMk.jpg3rd amp: mordru
http://i.imgur.com/ULrS9XA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ok3ytaP.jpg4th amp: time trapper/Controller.
http://i.imgur.com/V7pWWZ0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sIvAev0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lYPWg4m.jpg
Those are not amps. He is absorbing those items of power and beings to get back at full power and even then his power wasn't what it was at full power.
1. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-29.jpg
2. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-35.jpg
3. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-36.jpg
4. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-37.jpg
5. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-38.jpg
6. http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/lsh-v2-294-39.jpg
This is completely wrong, and ill post scans if you want. Ill prove it beyond all doubt, believe me. TT actually used conventional weaponry in his early appearances in Adventure Comics and was nowhere near the reality warper he became later on. The superman issue which you referenced is a prime example of this. It explicitly stated that he arranged the GL energy to go to the time dimension which you was used to destroy the possible futures. It wasn't even his power that destroyed them.
Yes, it was his power which he used in conjunction with GL energy to destroy all futures.
And I'd like to see the retcon which made him an abstract and the power up which gave him so much more power.
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111279017/5392239-time+trapper+bio.jpg
Not to mention, the bios are from 80s where Trapper was established as pretty much an abstract.
Not the entire legion. He was handling lightning lad, cosmic boy and sun boy. Doesn't exactly require a skyfather to do that.
Why the need to deception then?
Already proved it in the scans above. Onto the second part.http://imgur.com/mREtyOs
http://imgur.com/zQW0trPTT was basically standing there, no-selling Mon-El's attacks and looking at him getting owned without lifting so much as a finger. 😂
What the? Mon-el survives several attacks from him and actually drives him in the sun.
Compare that to Darkseid who put him into coma with one attack. After no selling his HV.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-07.jpg
1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-06.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-07.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-293-02.jpg
4. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-293-04.jpg
And his powers had waned over the years.
Your chronic need to lowball any character from pre crisis era is getting lulzworthy.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Cheapshot? Mordru is looking right at him and gets beaten by a wave of his hand.
You can see him turning his head after which (amped) Darkseid blasts him.
Originally posted by abhilegendYou should understand quite easily.
I really don't.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, it was his power which he used in conjunction with GL energy to destroy all futures.
No it wasn't. It was just the GL's power.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And I'd like to see the retcon which made him an abstract and the power up which gave him so much more power.http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111279017/5392239-time+trapper+bio.jpg
Not to mention, the bios are from 80s where Trapper was established as pretty much an abstract.
As I said before, there wasn't an official retcon, it was a gradual process over time which led TT to become a cosmic being.
This scan from his early encounters with the legion should give you an idea:
Be honest please: Do you think this is shit up there is on the same level as the TT who warped all the timelines?
Originally posted by abhilegend
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111279017/5392239-time+trapper+bio.jpgNot to mention, the bios are from 80s where Trapper was established as pretty much an abstract.
Are you even reading your own scans:
his personal abilities are not known
Also, these who's who bios are completely retarded in the power level section, they're contradictory. Ultra-Boy's bio says that his abilities are not on the level of Superboy/Mon-el when in comics they were described exactly as such and are proven even. This is just one example.
Btw, since you love bios, I just remembered that ive posted Darkseid's bio which revealed he was amped before, this should have sealed the debate tbh, but naturally it got ignored back then. Here it is again:
Originally posted by abhilegend
What the? Mon-el survives several attacks from him and actually drives him in the sun.Compare that to Darkseid who put him into coma with one attack. After no selling his HV.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-07.jpg
1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-06.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-292-07.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-293-02.jpg
4. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/lsh-v2-293-04.jpg
TT was toying with him. He was standing doing nothing literally. And Mon-El did no damage whatsoever.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Your chronic need to lowball any character from pre crisis era is getting lulzworthy.
Whatever.
In all seriousness I think it's more or less an even split.
Darkseid has some low showings which are mostly a result of him being treated as Superman's big bad. You inevitably end up with a few shit showings when you're the villain.
Odin also has his fair share of low showings which I believe is mostly so that he can't be used to solve every problem in the Thor comics. Similar to how Xavier is always incapacitated 👆
Originally posted by krisblaze
In all seriousness I think it's more or less an even split.Darkseid has some low showings which are mostly a result of him being treated as Superman's big bad. You inevitably end up with a few shit showings when you're the villain.
Odin also has his fair share of low showings which I believe is mostly so that he can't be used to solve every problem in the Thor comics. Similar to how Xavier is always incapacitated 👆
There is a huge gap in terms of power level between Darkseid in Odin in their depictions. Odin is consistently portrayed as being clearly superior.
I listed all his feats here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=599170&pagenumber=6
See third post. Btw, abhi, I didn't just list space cheese, there are tons of battles on the list.
For a direct comparison. Odin instantly mindraped the entire human population, while Darkseid sought to do exactly that yet couldn't and even resorted to using machines in extracting the secrets of ALE form single individuals. He also fled his planet due to a rebellion, Odin would just wave his hand and deal with them all together in an instant. Among other things like being threatened by the forever people. I honestly don't see how they can even be regarded as being close. There's a clear difference in power level. Do you think it's a coincidence that people always refer to GDS when debating about pre-Crisis Darkseid despite him having dozens of other appearances? It's because only in that arc he has good feats which he achieved through various amps. And Darkseid wasn't treated as a "superman big bad" he wasn't even a superman villain pre-Crisis. His sole goal was finding the ALE
Originally posted by operator616
You can see him turning his head after which (amped) Darkseid blasts him.
Hahaha, it's like writing (amped) means he was amped.
But hey, you went from off panel to on panel. You'll see the light soon too.
I really don't.
Well, you should.
No it wasn't. It was just the GL's power.
So GLs were what, abstract level in power?
As I said before, there wasn't an official retcon, it was a gradual process over time which led TT to become a cosmic being.
So you got nothing but your own interpretation of the comics.
Good. When you have something which actually matters, let me know.
This scan from his early encounters with the legion should give you an idea:
Be honest please: Do you think this is shit up there is on the same level as the TT who warped all the timelines?
I should also post Odin getting beaten up by space Ants and ask you the same question.
Low showings happen. Get over it.
Are you even reading your own scans:
his personal abilities are not known
Yeah, he was an ambiguous character at that point.
His power levels didn't just increased overnight.
Anyway, he was called equal to Darkseid post crisis as well.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11227127/m3.jpg.html
http://i.imgur.com/neHVpcN.jpg
B-but, he has those low showings!!!!
Also, these who's who bios are completely retarded in the power level section, they're contradictory. Ultra-Boy's bio says that his abilities are not on the level of Superboy/Mon-el when in comics they were described exactly as such and are proven even. This is just one example.
Ultra boy was never on equal terms with Superboy or Mon-El. He even admitted so.
Nice deflection though.
Btw, since you love bios, I just remembered that ive posted Darkseid's bio which revealed he was amped before, this should have sealed the debate tbh, but naturally it got ignored back then. Here it is again:
That's just as vague as your claim of Trapper's power source being unknown.
And he displayed other abilities. Not necessarily more powerful.
We have exact comment from the comic itself that what he believed to be his full power had waned over the centuries.
TT was toying with him. He was standing doing nothing literally. And Mon-El did no damage whatsoever.
Except blasting him and getting punched across the solar system. But his performance against Mon-El was below to Darkseid.
Whatever.
😂
You don't even deny it.
