Odin vs Pre Crisis Darkseid

Originally posted by abhilegend

That was for destroying earth only.

No where the neural machine was amplifying his power.

Yes, just like Odin beating Dark Gods with a broken spear.

😂

I know but you referenced to the device which was channeling Darkseid's power so i thought id strike back. The neural machine however wasn't even his power. It was a technological device and nowhere did it say that it was channeling his power. It was the device DS used to dampen the heroes powers.

http://imgur.com/XgtEEE5

And here Desaad refers to it as a technological device with nothing to do with DS's powers. It was probably a device created by Desaad himself.

http://imgur.com/ixxbpCT

let's face it, You fuked up when you referenced that feat, and you fuked up even more disputing its non-canonicity.

Originally posted by abhilegend
crylaugh

Now on panel canon stories are rendered non canon by letter pages?

Hahaha. Oh you jester.

WTF? Are you capable of comprehending the most basic of things?

COIE took place, Legends came shortly after and New Gods continuity still wasn't established. New Genesis was destroyed, it was later established that that was never the case and New Genesis is still intact. Meaning Hunger Dogs is non canon its simple as that.

Anyway, why am I debating this with you? The letter's section is written by the actual editor Michael Eury

http://imgur.com/Xf7bVAa

Same thing in issue #19.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not godblast. Explicitly. He channeled a storm with his own life force.

And Godblast is pretty weak anyway, it couldn't do anything to Juggernaut and was explicitly stated to be only able to knock out Ego for a brief time.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29569843/ThorrefersGodblast.jpg.html

I mean, what a weak attack.

It was a godblast, because he channeled his asgardian life force. This is exactly what a godblast is.

Juggernaut stopped the godblast with his invisible force field, something which not all writers use and ignore. The only time the force field was actually weak was in the early X-Men issues (in the 60s) when some wind machine took out Juggernaut's force field for a while when he crashed into one. In the era when Thor faced him, that wasn't the case.

Lowballing the godblast through Ego though? You were better off posting the juggernaut scene than the Ego one, lol, seriously what were you thinking?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he is the one giving power to Thor. Where was that power when Jane was bashing his face in while throwing him around solar system like a ping pong ball?

Yes, just like Odin said in Fear Itself.

http://imgur.com/KaJa2Xk

"Odin giveth, Odin taketh away"

so, PIS/CIS maybe?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Who have depowered Mordru before. Not a bad showing by any means.

Random sorcerers who have no feats devising a spell to drain Mordru is not a bad showing?

Oh wait, they're impressive because they've drained Mordru before (who iirc wasn't as powerful back then anyway)? Are you starting to realize the double standard here? But mangog is not impressive because Odin was scared of him, neither is it impressive that Odin defeated him; however, random sorcerer's depowering Mordru is not a bad showing just because they've done it before.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Hahaha. Oh the sheer gall here.

You're a joke at this point. Like, really, how in the hell are you still debating this? Did you even read the comic or are you that much desperate?

Read and learn.

http://imgur.com/2jfXWU6

Tell me more about he did all that under his own power. You'd have to try and ignore every single page of the comic to claim otherwise because the whole premise of the story was about DS's plan to displace the earth.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yes, the story was out of continuity of the post crisis universe since it too in pre crisis history and Wonder Woman not being returned to clay was done in COIE.

And it directly references pre crisis history. Like in here.

Get it, letters pages are not substitute for actual on panel facts.

Holy shit are you reaching new heights.

it doesn't matter if a comic references a previous issue, because that just says that that specific event happened in this part of non canon story. Kind of like elseworlds and what ifs were certain events diverged, and in this case the very events of DC Challenge is what diverges this so called elseworld (ignore the term just understand the concept) from the main continuity Why is this so hard to understand?

Anyway...the actual editor himself said that it is out of continuity.

Read the scans again and notice who wrote them.

http://imgur.com/8jDr3rN

http://imgur.com/UuHd8JH

That's right, it's Bob Greenberger, the actual editor of the series 👆

Originally posted by abhilegend

Haha, rich coming from you. Why don't you post some more letter pages?

Lol, what did you expect? you want an on panel instance where Batman says "hey listen readers, this comic is non canon"? The editor of the series confirmed its non canonicity how can you in your right mind still deny these blatant facts?

Also, when I originally said that these were non canon you replied to me with "i know" you're not starting to "flip flop" are you?

Originally posted by abhilegend

If its referenced everywhere, sure.

Joke had Mxy's power. And Joker is not most memorable for Emperor Joker you little goon.

Its The Killing Joke or a lot of Batman's stories. Emperor Joker is never even mentioned as a must read story for Joker. Nice strawman though.

And Darkseid had Excalibur, the orb, TT/controller, and Mordru's powers.

😂 at your horrible comprehension skills. When I said "most memorable" i was referring to the DCU comics readers in general not the niche ones who are specifically into Batman comics. And you divert from the main point as usual and start talking irrelevant shit like "killing joke" is the most memorable (well actually from an in-universe perspective it's Joker's last laugh is). What do i even care what's most memorable? Point being is that memorable doesn't equate to standard and is pretty much the exact opposite, because in memorable story arcs something out of the ordinary/standard happens. This is basic stuff. So you saying that we should consider GDS as standard because it's most "memorable" is as wrong as it gets. Although you can keep telling me about Joker's most memorable appearances, go on.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Haha, seriously?

And here comes the twisting of words.

What you said was that the war was merely confined in a solar system. Now when you get caught up by your scans, you backpaddled by saying it later expanded to the rest of the universe later.

😂

You flip flop like its going out of Zop.

Are you an idiot or something? You literally haven't been able to comprehend most of my posts and completely go about talking about something else.

I never said that the Apokolips New Genesis war was isolated to solar system level. I remembered that scene quite well in my head, actually. The conversation went this way:

- Me: My initial point was that they wanted to destroy each other's planets. And I never mentioned it was solar system level.

- You: Show me where was it stated.

- Me: show you a scan stating exactly what I said.

- you: Lol! the scan states the war was universal.

- me: It was not universal, it just extended to the universe but either way my point is that they wanted to destroy each other planets

- you: haha, you said that it was solar system level.

😂 WTF? do you see how stupid you sound here? That's exactly how it went.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, the sheer delusion here is marvelous.

Its called a retcon you little goon. From All Star Squadron 23, its explicitly stated that his powers were reduced to mere physical aspects with the half helmet.

Captain obvious strikes again!

Did you really think I didn't take the ASS retcon into account? Do you want me to destroy you even more? so be it....

You see the difference between you and me is that you cling to a single showing, be it a retcon or something and base your entire opinion off of it. While I on the other hand, take into account everything, which is why you will inevitably get destroyed. Like here, you're failing to realize that the all star squadron retcon happened in the 80s and was never the case in your fate scans. The Mordru/Dr Fate scene is from Justice League #147 (1977) the all star squadron retcon is from 1981 (4 years later), so in one word, yes or no, tell me, did the writer of the JL story know of the retcon which will happen 4 years later?

Moreover, below is the reason you should take account all character history to know of the power levels the character is operating at a certain scene. You say that Fate was reduced to a mere physical aspect right? (I did say that he was more of a physical powerhouse), but that's simply not true, because he did have magical powers even after he was wearing the so called half helmet (which back then wasn't associated with his power level).

Examples (note that Dr Fate was officially depowered in more fun comics #72 so those instances come later ill reference issue numbers)

#75: Uses telepathy

http://i.imgur.com/fCK0Nlj.jpg

#73: Uses energy projection

http://imgur.com/tR58Be0

#77: Same thing:

http://imgur.com/mj7ydyE

Here is Dr Fate using magnetic powers in All-Star Comics #16(not all star squadron which you seem to be mistaking for; ASC was published in 1940s), all the while he has a half helmet:

http://imgur.com/5waaPLu

And he's done it more than once in the title, hes also used electric powers in later issues of more fun comics.

So tell me again how was he reduced to a mere physical aspect? That's right, he didn't, at least not back in the day. Like you see he was never "officially" magically depowered back in the golden age, rather it was a gradual process. If you read his history you'll notice this but like always, you seem ignorant about these type of things. Heck even in the All Star Squadron #50 it was established that his tower was the only thing where he could do magic:

http://imgur.com/JnLqyZH

Which is why when you reference a comic from before the retcon you'll have to factor in the actual history of that era not just apply the retcon blindly without knowing the intention of the character's power level. Otherwise we'll have contradictions all over the place.

The half helm and full helm distinction was irrelevant back in the day, all there was was a gradual decrease in power with time. All the half helmet did back in the day was introduce his famous lung weakness, which as I posted before was still present when his supposedly "full helmet" came back (see world's finest #208 scan). Read the goddamn comics before trying to act like a smartass.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And yet, he was still powerful enough to knock out Spectre with one bullrush.
Or defeat Lords of Chaos powerful enough to endanger entire Multiverse.

http://imgur.com/a/qICPa#0

Or defeat another Lord of Chaos.

http://i.imgur.com/kh3ydgI.jpg

Or being nearly as powerful as Spectre with full helmet.

http://i.imgur.com/5sF3KTK.jpg

Or tap into the power of creation itself.

http://i.imgur.com/oOgZ5g3.jpg

He was just a weakling yo!

Spectre was a weakling too!

So was Time Trapper!

Everyone was weakling by random low showings from 40s!

Keep making fun but .....honest question: Did you actually read like anything from the golden age? because I find it hard to believe you find anyone even remotely approaching Odin back then, except the Spectre maybe, who definitely wasn't in All star comics when he appeared with the JSA.

1) the Spectre knocking out was before ASS #1, a time period when Spectre was weakened even by golden age standards. If we use your logic against you we'll have Spectre being extremely weak back then since he wasn't able to equal Zor's size in more fun comics #55:

http://imgur.com/Q53oSYG

And was defeated by him in #57:

http://imgur.com/f9Lt5wy

While fast forward to All Star Squadron annual #3 (which takes place chronologically at that same time era but a bit later) Spectre shocked Zor while outright dwarfing him:

http://imgur.com/JiofZBH

the one which Fate KO'd was the weakling when he was still around-below Zor's level. for what it's worth it was outright stated in an '86 bio that Fate with his original helmet is still dwarfed by the Spectre.

2) Fate defeated Ynar only when merged with Inza which wasn't a conventional power level for him. And they never endangered the multiverse. And The lords of chaos never endangered the earth under their own power much less the whole multiverse. It's just that they always reference the war between lords of chaos and order as being multiversal, as in spread throughout the multiverse, so if lords of chaos triumph over order they'll endanger the multiverse by spreading their influence. Anyway, these scans should clarify that the energies released from Fate's battle with Vandaemon empowered the gem which warped the Earth:

http://imgur.com/keYkTIo
http://imgur.com/tK5jEnA

3) I admit this one is impressive.

4) Refer to #1) regarding Spectre's power level in the golden age, the Fate/Spectre scan is from All-Star Squadron #4 which is when Spectre was weaker even by golden age standards.

Either way though, according to the Shining Knight, E2 Superman (who is weaker than E1 Superman) is doubtlessly the most powerful super-hero on Earth-two (which includes Spectre and Fate).

http://imgur.com/NXJ2ESU

So Superman > Spectre?
Statements are irrelevant when contradicted by on panel evidence.

His encounter with the spectre in ASS #27/28 was impressive though.

5) Am I supposed to be impressed that he taps into the power of creation to destroy a freaking ship? Dr Strange has tapped into the powers of creation as well to restore Thor's hammer. Previously he has also called upon the powers of God himself to absorb the power of an elder god's avatar. Magicians call upon higher powers all the time, doesn't mean they can actually equate them. It's just fancy words.

--------------

Anyway, let's look at other showings for Fate though (I did omit his half helm defeats so that you have no excuses whatsoever even if it was not relevant to his power level back then)

Beaten by Vulcan in ASC #63 who was owned by the star sprangled kid:

http://imgur.com/pd3x1n9
http://imgur.com/ederFkx

Beaten by Alan in #68:

http://imgur.com/qTEV6RZ

Or, JLA v1 #148 (same arc where the Mordru instance happened), one of the Demons three mindrapes Fate:

http://i.imgur.com/TbM4zty.jpg
...later on:
http://i.imgur.com/d0cpox6.jpg

Earlier in JLA v1 #64, Robots with sand/dust paralyzing guns nullifying fate's magic and paralyzing him:

http://i.imgur.com/ngwBlnD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u6bOa1z.jpg

Clobbered by Grundy in Showcase.

http://imgur.com/E8C9054

KO'd by a single punch from Hourman same issue:

http://imgur.com/4DzbaNE
http://imgur.com/FyY6tKF

Same Hourman who back then had the strength of 10 men, was KO'd and suffocated by regular humans, was Ko'd by a barrel gun and couldn't break from conventional handcuffs. 😂 This isn't even lowballing btw, Hourman legitimately was a street level character back then.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Grundy was able to absorb the magic of Fate and was a beast in his own regard.

I don't give a shit about how you view the characters.

so basically he beat him. 👆

Even hourman was doing well against Grundy there, not to mention Grundy always had problems with GL Alan, and even Hawkman was holding his own against him in All Star comics #33.

Oh and just so we're clear, I don't give a shit about your view either.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Another retcon. Post crisis that is and which is forgotten again since. But where is the chronology now?

Yeah, that's just idiotic.

😂 are you seriously ignoring evidence from three different comic series?

It's a pivotral part of the entire mid 80s, and 90s Dr Fate history, you're just gonna ignore all that shit?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its good that it wasn't back in 40s. It happened in 80s and Spectre was a different beast then.

All star squadron 27: Spectre threw Fate across entire multiverse and is outright stated to be more powerful than Nabu.

http://i.imgur.com/HXc3wrQ.jpg

Add a lot of other feats from 80s.

facepalm

the title All Star Squadron takes place in WW2 in the 1940s not 1980s.

ASS was very closely tied with the 1940s title All Star comics where the golden age JSA used to appear, the title tied everything up pretty well,, even referencing the instance when Luthor became nigh omnipotent with the power stone in the golden age superman comics, and referencing/tying up various stories which the JSA undertook in the ASC title in the 1940s.

Here's all star squadron #50 outright replaying the events of All Star comics #13 when the whole JSA, including the Spectre were knocked out by regular gas. This was the reason behind their disappearance in like more than a dozen or so issues of All star squadron because they were rocketed off earth (just like originally in ASC #13 but back then all this happened in the space of a single issue)

http://imgur.com/zOPd6vw
http://imgur.com/UFlMr3S
http://imgur.com/ZSpnhSg

Notice the spectre being depicted in particular.

Just like originally in ASC #13:

http://imgur.com/rXh7d1L
http://imgur.com/BSj3rZN

Like I said it takes place at the exact same time. And it's the same spectre who got knocked out by regular gas as seen above.

It was just tying up loose ends like for example here referencing while also retconning the whole event as happening in an alternate universe, because originally in ASC #13 the JSA were rocketed off to the various planets their Earth's solar system, while ASS retcons it into them being rocketed into an earth's solar system of another universe, which is understandable because originally each of those planets were inhabited.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It didn't happen in All Star comics. It happened in All Star Squadron.

And Ostrander retconned that Spectre was always at half power until Jim Corrigon went to heaven.

Are you blind or something? Where did I say it happened in all star comics?

You do realize that:

ASC = All Star Comics
ASS = All Star Squadron

If you read the post you quoted I specifically said ASS annual #3. Meaning All Star Squadron annual #3.

Simple enough? Or are you just making shit up and arguing just to argue? Same thing applies to your Ostrander comment, you're just randomly picking points and saying whatever random shit comes to your mind.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Haha, all this nonsense and you didn't post a single scan of Fate being weakened in the fight with Mordru. In fact he was amped with the power of Hal and Alan who were absolute beasts in silver age.

But all of them were weaklings because of random low showings, right?

Your desperation is palpable. In order to lowball Darkseid, you've lowballed nearly everyone in pre crisis universe.

I broke down for you the entirety of Dr Fate's history. even going so as far as referencing issue numbers by rechecking the issues themselves (it's a tiresome task you know) and you ignored it all like clueless idiot. This time I posted all the relevant scans to shut you up for good.

"absolute beasts" in the silver age. Yeah, no. Golden Age Alan (same one from the silver age) was actually pretty weak and weaker than your standard GLs as they are portrayed nowadays. Later on in the silver age and bronze age he was upgraded to Hal's level who had many impressive feats admittedly but was at the same level as his post-Crisis self except under Johns. You seem to think PC characters were stronger, they weren't. in the golden age all characters were actually weaker except for street level characters like the atom or sandman who stayed the same, later in silver age great feats from heroes started to manifest although physical powerhouses like Superman or Captain Marvel were the exceptions back then in the early silver age/late golden age, everyone else was below them, bronze age was more consistent in terms of power level and portrayed the characters around the same power level as post-crisis.

No, unlike you I actually have a good grasp about the PC average portrayals of the characters

Originally posted by abhilegend
What a bunch of weaklings. If only Krona (a random Guardian and an average skyfather in DC) didn't stomp the everloving shit out of Galactus and made him his *****. Or Kismet being a peer to Eternity. Or Spectre overpowering the IG and UN in separating the universes.

But DC skyfathers are somehow less powerful than marvel ones.

😂

You just randomly seemed to go on a rant about how powerful DC characters are. 😆 WTF dude? You seem mad lol.

Krona was amped there btw. He's nowhere near Galactus' level and guardians are low skyfathers at best. I bet you're gonna blow up after this comment. 👆

Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that Hunger Dogs was removed from New God continuity in the years following COIE. Aside from the letter pages operator posted, there's also the fact that Orion had not met his mother, and New Genesis was not destroyed.

It was just a retroactive retcon, is all. Happens all the time in comics. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that Hunger Dogs was removed from New God continuity in the years following COIE. Aside from the letter pages operator posted, there's also the fact that Orion had not met his mother, and New Genesis was not destroyed.

It was just a retroactive retcon, is all. Happens all the time in comics. 🙂

👆 I did reference New Genesis not being destroyed though.

Abhi's excuse is that letter's pages are unusable apparently despite the editor himself confirming it. For some reason, he expects a direct on panel statement saying that Hunger Dogs is non canon which we all know is not how comics work. Same thing with DC challenge.

Worse yet, he's hurting his own argument by saying that because it canonizes super powers where Darkseid was a joke compared to GDS.

And finally, he actually originally agreed that it's non canon but then just randomly decided to dispute its non-canonicity.

This is Abhi's debating in a nutshell.

Originally posted by operator616
so basically he beat him. 👆

Even hourman was doing well against Grundy there, not to mention Grundy always had problems with GL Alan, and even Hawkman was holding his own against him in All Star comics #33.

Oh and just so we're clear, I don't give a shit about your view either.

😂 are you seriously ignoring evidence from three different comic series?

It's a pivotral part of the entire mid 80s, and 90s Dr Fate history, you're just gonna ignore all that shit?

facepalm

the title All Star Squadron takes place in WW2 in the 1940s not 1980s.

ASS was very closely tied with the 1940s title All Star comics where the golden age JSA used to appear, the title tied everything up pretty well,, even referencing the instance when Luthor became nigh omnipotent with the power stone in the golden age superman comics, and referencing/tying up various stories which the JSA undertook in the ASC title in the 1940s.

Here's all star squadron #50 outright replaying the events of All Star comics #13 when the whole JSA, including the Spectre were knocked out by regular gas. This was the reason behind their disappearance in like more than a dozen or so issues of All star squadron because they were rocketed off earth (just like originally in ASC #13 but back then all this happened in the space of a single issue)

http://imgur.com/zOPd6vw
http://imgur.com/UFlMr3S
http://imgur.com/ZSpnhSg

Notice the spectre being depicted in particular.

Just like originally in ASC #13:

http://imgur.com/rXh7d1L
http://imgur.com/BSj3rZN

Like I said it takes place at the exact same time. And it's the same spectre who got knocked out by regular gas as seen above.

It was just tying up loose ends like for example here referencing while also retconning the whole event as happening in an alternate universe, because originally in ASC #13 the JSA were rocketed off to the various planets their Earth's solar system, while ASS retcons it into them being rocketed into an earth's solar system of another universe, which is understandable because originally each of those planets were inhabited.

Are you blind or something? Where did I say it happened in all star comics?

You do realize that:

ASC = All Star Comics
ASS = All Star Squadron

If you read the post you quoted I specifically said ASS annual #3. Meaning All Star Squadron annual #3.

Simple enough? Or are you just making shit up and arguing just to argue? Same thing applies to your Ostrander comment, you're just randomly picking points and saying whatever random shit comes to your mind.

I broke down for you the entirety of Dr Fate's history. even going so as far as referencing issue numbers by rechecking the issues themselves (it's a tiresome task you know) and you ignored it all like clueless idiot. This time I posted all the relevant scans to shut you up for good.

"absolute beasts" in the silver age. Yeah, no. Golden Age Alan (same one from the silver age) was actually pretty weak and weaker than your standard GLs as they are portrayed nowadays. Later on in the silver age and bronze age he was upgraded to Hal's level who had many impressive feats admittedly but was at the same level as his post-Crisis self except under Johns. You seem to think PC characters were stronger, they weren't. in the golden age all characters were actually weaker except for street level characters like the atom or sandman who stayed the same, later in silver age great feats from heroes started to manifest although physical powerhouses like Superman or Captain Marvel were the exceptions back then in the early silver age/late golden age, everyone else was below them, bronze age was more consistent in terms of power level and portrayed the characters around the same power level as post-crisis.

No, unlike you I actually have a good grasp about the PC average portrayals of the characters

You just randomly seemed to go on a rant about how powerful DC characters are. 😆 WTF dude? You seem mad lol.

Krona was amped there btw. He's nowhere near Galactus' level and guardians are low skyfathers at best. I bet you're gonna blow up after this comment. 👆

Yeah, operator is killing him.

I miss the days when people debated, instead of posting just to get a rise out of people....

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, operator is killing him.

Oh you cheerleader.

Originally posted by operator616
👆

High-fiving quan now? How sad.

It's a sad thing that you actually think I'm lowballing. You seem to think that Pre Crisis DC is filled with omnipotent super heroes and villains when in fact that were portrayed not unlike their post-Crisis versions. You also think that what I'm referencing are outliers and lows when they're just plain average portrayals of the characters. I mean, you thought TT was an abstract when he was basically an evil scientist type character....

Haha, the way you are going now, PC characters must be street level heroes.

How sad is that you are still clinging to that when I have proved you wrong again and again.

Time Trapper was retconned.

but you know what's the best part? I actually thought that you knew how they were portrayed on average which is why I thought it's unnecessary to post scans because that's just basic knowledge. Now I know better though, ill post every single scan to shut you down.

I'll enjoy you shooting yourself in foot again.

Originally posted by operator616
When referring to GDS, the bio specifically said the time trapper clone; while his early encounters with legion were merely stated to be "time trapper" not "time trapper clone".

Haha, what? Time Trapper himself stated that the LOSH have never met him in LOSH v3 38.

You still haven't addressed these I see:

http://imgur.com/It0LkQU

http://imgur.com/htSmYlF

Maybe you should try to read?

That's from Who's who in LOSH which explicitly stated that all the subsequent encounters of LOSH with TT was a clone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29544984/RCO015_1468222972.jpg.html

Which is understandable because they shit all over your argument.

I know its quite hard for you to read but this is just sad. You still have no answer for this.

Which destroys all your arguments.

But that specific instance went exactly as it did originally, it was even referenced just like it happened back then:

http://imgur.com/N360qiI
http://imgur.com/WubxzrO

Your obsession to that single issue is worrisome. How hard is it for you to understand that the Time Trapper was retconned so that all his losses were for the controller.

There was a second time trapper which the real Legion never met as revealed in LOSH 38.

When he absorbed the second artifact he literally said "i am fulfilled" after which he absorbed TT/Controller and Mordru. Mordru alone is a skyfather, that by itself proves that he was amped.

He said, "I'm fullfilled, for now."

Which we know is a lower level than before as his powers had waned over time. So no, it doesn't proves he was amped.

And Mordru is a skyfather? I thought he was simply another street level PC character? Around Captain America level as you so succinctly proved by showing Dr. Fate and Spectre being beaten by street level beings.

How can Darkseid be amped by such a weak character?

Not to mention the new abilities which he developed, and something interesting I realized while reviewing the original war. in the original Apokolips/New Genesis war, Darkseid sought desperate means to win the war, so he had Metron develop teleportation technology to give them the edge (boom tubes):

http://imgur.com/nWy5HpT
http://imgur.com/0EINMKZ
http://imgur.com/P3ix01j
http://imgur.com/vfhG1Hy

Now why would he do that when he could just open big space warps like he did in GDS? It was after all a significant point in the war. And in the entirety of his appearances he has never ever opened a space warp, I'm pretty sure about that.

Again with the circular logic? How hard is it for you to show us a single scan where GDS Darkseid is definitely stated to be amped?

One single implication would be suffice.

Also, you are basically saying that standard Darkseid is capable of mindraping several billion Superman level beings.

I again emphasize, why are you going around in circular logic? Yes, he is. As it already happened.

I don't need to emphasize how ridiculous this sounds. I have established previously how Darkseid has failed to mindrape single human individuals by extracting the secrets he needed. Literally everything seems to suggest that he was amped.

Humans containing ALE. No, literally everything stated that he was weaker than usual.

GTFO with your circular logic.

Because it's out of context, ive already provided the context of that feat.

What context? The one you made up? The timelines were destroyed by GL energy and Superman and Jaxon were able to counter that level of power to restore all of realities.

No, because Mangog was stated to be a greater threat than Ego.

Oh your precious Mangog. And what did he do to claim being a greater threat than Ego and why should I care about random ABC comparison?

Hyperion was compared to Mangog FYI.

And because of the Orikal instance I referenced.

Where you just mentioned Orikal as being a cosmic being and that's it?

Yes, you're gonna start lowballing them too, i know, but don't divert from the main point: that I'm not using circular logic (Mangog is powerful because he defeated Odin, and Odin defeated Mangog thus he is extremely impressive). Ive actually provided other feats. I don't want to hear the lowballing yet again.

You have done that exactly.

Try to dictate someone who gives a shit about what you think.

Odin got oneshotted by Mangog and shat his pants. By your logic, what a weakling.

👆

You are simply unable to grasp comic feats. What Stargrave did was a localized event. He sealed off a localized reality crack which if it was widened will threaten reality.

No, he did not. The one of those fissures had indeed destroyed most of the galaxy in the previous issue.

And the space warp which Stargrave closed was large enough to destroy both universes as stated in narration.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29544973/Superboy_224_01.jpg.html

This is not "Mangog is more powerful than Ego" shit you're so fond to paddle out. You can't lowball this.

going by your logic Thor is a reality buster since he was able to crack a small portion of reality in Thor #204:

http://imgur.com/jjD5pSg

If only it was reality. It was an illusion, in get this, Mephisto's realm.

So much for context, eh?

Forget about Odin.

Granted, Stargrave's feat is obviously more impressive than Thor's but the point must be quite clear.

Haha, oh you poor fool.

I know he was compared to the weaker TT back in the day. But you are comparing him with entropy TT as well.

No, I'm comparing Darkseid to Entropy TT. As stated in comics.

So Darkseid was consistently entropy TT/Infinite Man level? 😂 your ignorance and bias truly have no bounds

Haha, read the comics you goon. I'm only showing what the comics stated.

Don't like it, don't blame me.

What scans did I omit? Those two scans are in chronological order. Odin was stomping Perrikus as shown in the first scan then off panel shit happens and suddenly we see Odin on the ground in the second scan.

So fighting someone is stomping them, eh?

And how does Perrikkus kill Odin if he was so much weaker.

There's no way of telling how he was defeated. So your statement of "perrikus was beating Odin's ass" is completely baseless.

No, it wasn't. Zelia didn't fight Odin. Only Perrikkus did and we see Odin nearly defeated.

No he didn't. Just like the scan says: It was young Thor's presence and bold move which re-motivated and empowered Odin to defeat them.

Empowered, eh?

Thor subconsciously held the OF in check and didn't use to its full potential. He basically had self imposed limitations. It was confirmed 3 issues after the moon instance.

http://imgur.com/gI40y7e

And he defeated Perrikkus in that state only. A moon level being did that.

Also, let's not forget that Thor actually imprisoned the sun-empowered creature apart from re-creating the moon.

And that exhausted him. Even Kyle Rayner did better than him when he imprisoned Traitor in a planet's core.

So much for skyfathers.

😂

Odin >>>>>> Perrikus.

Must suck for Odin if even such a creature can beat the shit out of him and defeat him.

So basically he was holding his own against a multi universal power. good to know.

What multi universal power? And Thor also had his belt of strength. It wasn't just Odin power.

Meanwhile, Super powers Darkseid (which is non canon but usable according to you) is having trouble with Red tornado, hawkman and green arrow. Among other things I just don't care to remember. He was a joke in those series. No idea why would you even reference them.

http://imgur.com/8atKOYQ
http://imgur.com/GnQgckv

In the same reference he says he has fought Superman to a standstill.

But yeah, keeping him off balance is only thing they coul do when he was blinded.

And Red Tornado was a powerhouse in his own right pre crisis.

This is Super powers collection btw, and is as much cannon as your SP v2 scans. In other words, non canon at all but suit yourself.

😂

You surely know how to lowball.

I'm still waiting to see what makes him impressive in that series.

I've already shown those to you. Keep forgetting how to read though. That always works.

Originally posted by operator616
I know but you referenced to the device which was channeling Darkseid's power so i thought id strike back.

Strike back?

Haha, what?

The neural machine however wasn't even his power. It was a technological device and nowhere did it say that it was channeling his power. It was the device DS used to dampen the heroes powers.

http://imgur.com/XgtEEE5

Of course it said that it was his own power through his hologram.

Seriously?

And here Desaad refers to it as a technological device with nothing to do with DS's powers. It was probably a device created by Desaad himself.

http://imgur.com/ixxbpCT

Yes, it was technological device. Yet, darkseid himself channeled it.

"Probably created by Desaad himself."

Haha, wut?

let's face it, You fuked up when you referenced that feat, and you fuked up even more disputing its non-canonicity.

Let's face it, you are a doofus who doesn't know what the **** he is talking about.

WTF? Are you capable of comprehending the most basic of things?

Are you?

COIE took place, Legends came shortly after and New Gods continuity still wasn't established. New Genesis was destroyed, it was later established that that was never the case and New Genesis is still intact. Meaning Hunger Dogs is non canon its simple as that.

Haha, WTF? The continuity wasn't established? Hey you goon, its called a retcon. Not that the continuity wasn't established.

Anyway, why am I debating this with you? The letter's section is written by the actual editor Michael Eury

http://imgur.com/Xf7bVAa

Same thing in issue #19.

And Action Comics 586 directly references it.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29575145/ActionComics586p01.jpg.html

Glad to set that clear. So your insistence that it was always non canon? Bullshit.

It was a godblast, because he channeled his asgardian life force. This is exactly what a godblast is.

It was the storm which was channeled with his life force. Not exactly a godblast.

Juggernaut stopped the godblast with his invisible force field, something which not all writers use and ignore.

A fan>Godblast.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/26241707/X-MEN033_13b.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/26241708/X-MEN033_14a.jpg.html

Such weaklings.

The only time the force field was actually weak was in the early X-Men issues (in the 60s) when some wind machine took out Juggernaut's force field for a while when he crashed into one. In the era when Thor faced him, that wasn't the case.

Prove that by scans.

Lowballing the godblast through Ego though? You were better off posting the juggernaut scene than the Ego one, lol, seriously what were you thinking?

Why not? Ego is just a living planet which has the durability of a planet. There is nothing extraordinary about him.

Now should I be impressed with Ego because he fought shitty silver age Galactus and lost to Thor straight up?

Yes, just like Odin said in Fear Itself.

http://imgur.com/KaJa2Xk

"Odin giveth, Odin taketh away"

so, PIS/CIS maybe?

Maybe?

😂

Jane straight up bashed Odin's face in. Deal with it.

Random sorcerers who have no feats devising a spell to drain Mordru is not a bad showing?

Nope. Unless they have a bad showing which I'm unaware of?

Oh wait, they're impressive because they've drained Mordru before (who iirc wasn't as powerful back then anyway)?

Wut? Now Mordru wasn't as powerful as he would be later?

crylaugh

Are you starting to realize the double standard here? But mangog is not impressive because Odin was scared of him, neither is it impressive that Odin defeated him; however, random sorcerer's depowering Mordru is not a bad showing just because they've done it before.

Yes. Mangog got killed by Tho FFS.

You're a joke at this point. Like, really, how in the hell are you still debating this? Did you even read the comic or are you that much desperate?

Read and learn.

http://imgur.com/2jfXWU6

Tell me more about he did all that under his own power. You'd have to try and ignore every single page of the comic to claim otherwise because the whole premise of the story was about DS's plan to displace the earth.[/quote]

Wut? That was the machine Darkseid provided Tynion with. He himself was responsible for weakening of Earth's reality.

And he killed someone with power near universal level in one shot.

Holy shit are you reaching new heights.

it doesn't matter if a comic references a previous issue, because that just says that that specific event happened in this part of non canon story. Kind of like elseworlds and what ifs were certain events diverged, and in this case the very events of DC Challenge is what diverges this so called elseworld (ignore the term just understand the concept) from the main continuity Why is this so hard to understand?

This is just idiotic on so many levels, I can't even begin to start the listings.

Anyway...the actual editor himself said that it is out of continuity.

Read the scans again and notice who wrote them.

http://imgur.com/8jDr3rN

http://imgur.com/UuHd8JH

Yes, the ongoing continuity which was showing the multiverse already destroyed. COIE started in April 1985 and DC Challenge started in November 1985.

It is happening in pre crisis continuity which it refers to several times.

That's right, it's Bob Greenberger, the actual editor of the series 👆

You can read I presume?

Lol, what did you expect? you want an on panel instance where Batman says "hey listen readers, this comic is non canon"? The editor of the series confirmed its non canonicity how can you in your right mind still deny these blatant facts?

From the ongoing continuity which was showing Wonder Woman being returned to clay form in COIE and JLA satellite being destroyed.

Also, when I originally said that these were non canon you replied to me with "i know" you're not starting to "flip flop" are you?

Superpowers is non canon. DC Challenge is canon.

And Darkseid had Excalibur, the orb, TT/controller, and Mordru's powers.

Still not at full power.

😂 at your horrible comprehension skills. When I said "most memorable" i was referring to the DCU comics readers in general not the niche ones who are specifically into Batman comics. And you divert from the main point as usual and start talking irrelevant shit like "killing joke" is the most memorable (well actually from an in-universe perspective it's Joker's last laugh is). What do i even care what's most memorable? Point being is that memorable doesn't equate to standard and is pretty much the exact opposite, because in memorable story arcs something out of the ordinary/standard happens. This is basic stuff. So you saying that we should consider GDS as standard because it's most "memorable" is as wrong as it gets. Although you can keep telling me about Joker's most memorable appearances, go on.

😂

What a rant! Art thou mad now?

Are you an idiot or something? You literally haven't been able to comprehend most of my posts and completely go about talking about something else.

I could say the same about you. Except without resorting to name calling that is.

I never said that the Apokolips New Genesis war was isolated to solar system level.

Blatant lie.

Originally posted by operator616

The war between between New Genesis and Apokolips was like solar system level.

Now you are flip flopping on your own words?

😂

I remembered that scene quite well in my head, actually. The conversation went this way:

- Me: My initial point was that they wanted to destroy each other's planets. And I never mentioned it was solar system level.

Hahaha.

- You: Show me where was it stated.

- Me: show you a scan stating exactly what I said.

- you: Lol! the scan states the war was universal.

- me: It was not universal, it just extended to the universe but either way my point is that they wanted to destroy each other planets

- you: haha, you said that it was solar system level.

😂 WTF? do you see how stupid you sound here? That's exactly how it went.

crylaugh

Originally posted by operator616
[B]Captain obvious strikes again!

Just to let you know if you have forgotten it.

Did you really think I didn't take the ASS retcon into account? Do you want me to destroy you even more? so be it....

Destroy me some more? That would mean you have destroyed something other than your own arguments.

And you yourself said that you take the comics into chronological order and now how they appear in the real time. Are you flip flopping again?

You see the difference between you and me is that you cling to a single showing, be it a retcon or something and base your entire opinion off of it. While I on the other hand, take into account everything, which is why you will inevitably get destroyed. Like here, you're failing to realize that the all star squadron retcon happened in the 80s and was never the case in your fate scans. The Mordru/Dr Fate scene is from Justice League #147 (1977) the all star squadron retcon is from 1981 (4 years later), so in one word, yes or no, tell me, did the writer of the JL story know of the retcon which will happen 4 years later?

Yes, and Fate was with full helmet in Mordru scans. Unless you think full helmet Fate was less powerful than half helmet Fate, the retcon doesn't matters in those scans at all.

The retcon is only for the golden age stories where Fate appeared in half helmet.

Moreover, below is the reason you should take account all character history to know of the power levels the character is operating at a certain scene. You say that Fate was reduced to a mere physical aspect right? (I did say that he was more of a physical powerhouse), but that's simply not true, because he did have magical powers even after he was wearing the so called half helmet (which back then wasn't associated with his power level).

Examples (note that Dr Fate was officially depowered in more fun comics #72 so those instances come later ill reference issue numbers)

#75: Uses telepathy

http://i.imgur.com/fCK0Nlj.jpg

#73: Uses energy projection

http://imgur.com/tR58Be0

#77: Same thing:

http://imgur.com/mj7ydyE

Here is Dr Fate using magnetic powers in All-Star Comics #16(not all star squadron which you seem to be mistaking for; ASC was published in 1940s), all the while he has a half helmet:

http://imgur.com/5waaPLu

I'm not mistaking anything. You are though. You claim was that Fate was depowered in 40s and throughout silver age he was depowered. Where is that stated?

And he's done it more than once in the title, hes also used electric powers in later issues of more fun comics.

And how does it matter for silver age Fate?

So tell me again how was he reduced to a mere physical aspect? That's right, he didn't, at least not back in the day. Like you see he was never "officially" magically depowered back in the golden age, rather it was a gradual process.

And it was retconned away in silver age that he actually was depowered and got back at full power between golden age and silver age.

If you read his history you'll notice this but like always, you seem ignorant about these type of things. Heck even in the All Star Squadron #50 it was established that his tower was the only thing where he could do magic:

http://imgur.com/JnLqyZH

Half helmet fate again.

As you are unable to understand again, Where the **** was full helmet Fate depowered in golden age and continued in silver age?

Which is why when you reference a comic from before the retcon you'll have to factor in the actual history of that era not just apply the retcon blindly without knowing the intention of the character's power level. Otherwise we'll have contradictions all over the place.

No, I don't have to. The retcon means Fate was only depowered when he had the half helmet and not at full helmet.

Yes, retcons always have contradictions by its very nature.

The half helm and full helm distinction was irrelevant back in the day, all there was was a gradual decrease in power with time. All the half helmet did back in the day was introduce his famous lung weakness, which as I posted before was still present when his supposedly "full helmet" came back (see world's finest #208 scan). Read the goddamn comics before trying to act like a smartass.

Hey doofus, that's what the retcon is for. Don't like it? Don't come crying to me.

Show me a scan of full helmet Fate being depowered as you claimed so proudly.

Keep making fun but .....honest question: Did you actually read like anything from the golden age? because I find it hard to believe you find anyone even remotely approaching Odin back then, except the Spectre maybe, who definitely wasn't in All star comics when he appeared with the JSA.

I'm not talking about Golden age Spectre. I'm talking about silver age Spectre who was a legitimate universal level power.

1) the Spectre knocking out was before ASS #1, a time period when Spectre was weakened even by golden age standards. If we use your logic against you we'll have Spectre being extremely weak back then since he wasn't able to equal Zor's size in more fun comics #55:

http://imgur.com/Q53oSYG

And was defeated by him in #57:

http://imgur.com/f9Lt5wy

While fast forward to All Star Squadron annual #3 (which takes place chronologically at that same time era but a bit later) Spectre shocked Zor while outright dwarfing him:

http://imgur.com/JiofZBH

Quite irrelevant.

the one which Fate KO'd was the weakling when he was still around-below Zor's level. for what it's worth it was outright stated in an '86 bio that Fate with his original helmet is still dwarfed by the Spectre.

That's what the comics said too. But no, the Spectre Fate koed wasn't at All Star levels. The power levels had changed quite a bit by then.

2) Fate defeated Ynar only when merged with Inza which wasn't a conventional power level for him.

And they never endangered the multiverse. And The lords of chaos never endangered the earth under their own power much less the whole multiverse. It's just that they always reference the war between lords of chaos and order as being multiversal, as in spread throughout the multiverse, so if lords of chaos triumph over order they'll endanger the multiverse by spreading their influence. Anyway, these scans should clarify that the energies released from Fate's battle with Vandaemon empowered the gem which warped the Earth:

http://imgur.com/keYkTIo
http://imgur.com/tK5jEnA

Haha, WTF? The Lords of Order and Chaos created the entire creation from scratch in Dr. Fate v2. But somehow they are not multiversal?

GTFO.

3) I admit this one is impressive.

So Fate wasn't Captain America level like Darkseid and Mordru?

4) Refer to #1) regarding Spectre's power level in the golden age, the Fate/Spectre scan is from All-Star Squadron #4 which is when Spectre was weaker even by golden age standards.

No, he wasn't. Just a few issues later, same spectre hurled Fate through infinity of dimensions.

Either way though, according to the Shining Knight, E2 Superman (who is weaker than E1 Superman) is doubtlessly the most powerful super-hero on Earth-two (which includes Spectre and Fate).

http://imgur.com/NXJ2ESU

Which makes him impressive. Not weaken Fate or Spectre. Going by your Mangog>Ego logic of course.

So Superman > Spectre?
Statements are irrelevant when contradicted by on panel evidence.

Haha, sure. Unless they are Mangog and Ego.

His encounter with the spectre in ASS #27/28 was impressive though.

So both are USAgent level?

5) Am I supposed to be impressed that he taps into the power of creation to destroy a freaking ship? Dr Strange has tapped into the powers of creation as well to restore Thor's hammer. Previously he has also called upon the powers of God himself to absorb the power of an elder god's avatar. Magicians call upon higher powers all the time, doesn't mean they can actually equate them. It's just fancy words.

And whose shockwaves radiated through two universes? Yes, you should be impressed. At least make him Hawkeye level by that power showings.

--------------

Anyway, let's look at other showings for Fate though (I did omit his half helm defeats so that you have no excuses whatsoever even if it was not relevant to his power level back then)

Beaten by Vulcan in ASC #63 who was owned by the star sprangled kid:

http://imgur.com/pd3x1n9
http://imgur.com/ederFkx[quote]

Vulcan was ****ing powerful. Sylvester only beat him by absorbing his power.

[quote]Beaten by Alan in #68:

http://imgur.com/qTEV6RZ

Fate owned entire JSA quite easily.

Heck, entire JSA combined couldn't do anything to Fate.

So Captain America level at least.

Or, JLA v1 #148 (same arc where the Mordru instance happened), one of the Demons three mindrapes Fate:

http://i.imgur.com/TbM4zty.jpg
...later on:
http://i.imgur.com/d0cpox6.jpg

Which were more powerful than Mordru himself? What a low feat.

Earlier in JLA v1 #64, Robots with sand/dust paralyzing guns nullifying fate's magic and paralyzing him:

http://i.imgur.com/ngwBlnD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u6bOa1z.jpg

And then he goes and shields entire JSA from Aquarius, a living star for two weeks.

What a weakling.

Clobbered by Grundy in Showcase.

http://imgur.com/E8C9054

Defeats an evil Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/W4X1mBG.jpg

KO'd by a single punch from Hourman same issue:

http://imgur.com/4DzbaNE
http://imgur.com/FyY6tKF

Miraclo was affecting his magic and weakening him.

But context doesn't matters, eh?

Same Hourman who back then had the strength of 10 men, was KO'd and suffocated by regular humans, was Ko'd by a barrel gun and couldn't break from conventional handcuffs. 😂 This isn't even lowballing btw, Hourman legitimately was a street level character back then. [/B]

Haha, you are so entangled in your own headcanon that you don't even see how utterly ridiculous your entire logic is.

But go ahead, this is getting more amusing by every post.

Originally posted by operator616
so basically he beat him. 👆

By absorbing his power. Three Encanters beat the **** out of Odin and two of them were beaten by Scarlet Witch and Thor.

Even hourman was doing well against Grundy there, not to mention Grundy always had problems with GL Alan, and even Hawkman was holding his own against him in All Star comics #33.

So Fate was street level, is that what you are saying?

Oh and just so we're clear, I don't give a shit about your view either.

Good to know you don't give a shit about comics.

😂 are you seriously ignoring evidence from three different comic series?

It's a pivotral part of the entire mid 80s, and 90s Dr Fate history, you're just gonna ignore all that shit?

Haha, what? How was Hector able to channel full power of Nabu again? Kent V Nelson?

facepalm

the title All Star Squadron takes place in WW2 in the 1940s not 1980s.

ASS was very closely tied with the 1940s title All Star comics where the golden age JSA used to appear, the title tied everything up pretty well,, even referencing the instance when Luthor became nigh omnipotent with the power stone in the golden age superman comics, and referencing/tying up various stories which the JSA undertook in the ASC title in the 1940s.

Yes, i know. And Spectre and Fate had beastly feats in that series.

Here's all star squadron #50 outright replaying the events of All Star comics #13 when the whole JSA, including the Spectre were knocked out by regular gas. This was the reason behind their disappearance in like more than a dozen or so issues of All star squadron because they were rocketed off earth (just like originally in ASC #13 but back then all this happened in the space of a single issue)

http://imgur.com/zOPd6vw
http://imgur.com/UFlMr3S
http://imgur.com/ZSpnhSg

Notice the spectre being depicted in particular.

Just like originally in ASC #13:

http://imgur.com/rXh7d1L
http://imgur.com/BSj3rZN

Yes, where Spectre flat out says that he shouldn't be affected by gas as he is merely a spirit but turned out the weapon was Monitor science and hence affected him as well.

A retcon.

Like I said it takes place at the exact same time. And it's the same spectre who got knocked out by regular gas as seen above.

Did you even read the comic? It wasn't a normal gas. FFS, Spectre's dialog alone should let you know.

It was just tying up loose ends like for example here referencing while also retconning the whole event as happening in an alternate universe, because originally in ASC #13 the JSA were rocketed off to the various planets their Earth's solar system, while ASS retcons it into them being rocketed into an earth's solar system of another universe, which is understandable because originally each of those planets were inhabited.

Due to arrival from Harbinger which retconned shit.

Are you blind or something? Where did I say it happened in all star comics?

You do realize that:

ASC = All Star Comics
ASS = All Star Squadron

If you read the post you quoted I specifically said ASS annual #3. Meaning All Star Squadron annual #3.

Simple enough? Or are you just making shit up and arguing just to argue? Same thing applies to your Ostrander comment, you're just randomly picking points and saying whatever random shit comes to your mind. [/quote]

Is this supposed to make sense? Speak English.

I broke down for you the entirety of Dr Fate's history. even going so as far as referencing issue numbers by rechecking the issues themselves (it's a tiresome task you know) and you ignored it all like clueless idiot. This time I posted all the relevant scans to shut you up for good.

"absolute beasts" in the silver age. Yeah, no. Golden Age Alan (same one from the silver age) was actually pretty weak and weaker than your standard GLs as they are portrayed nowadays. Later on in the silver age and bronze age he was upgraded to Hal's level who had many impressive feats admittedly but was at the same level as his post-Crisis self except under Johns. You seem to think PC characters were stronger, they weren't. in the golden age all characters were actually weaker except for street level characters like the atom or sandman who stayed the same, later in silver age great feats from heroes started to manifest although physical powerhouses like Superman or Captain Marvel were the exceptions back then in the early silver age/late golden age, everyone else was below them, bronze age was more consistent in terms of power level and portrayed the characters around the same power level as post-crisis.

Haha, sure. Remind me again how SBP was portrayed in post crisis.

No, unlike you I actually have a good grasp about the PC average portrayals of the characters

Best joke I heard all day.

You just randomly seemed to go on a rant about how powerful DC characters are. 😆 WTF dude? You seem mad lol.

Just mocking you for your street level DC skyfathers depictions.

Krona was amped there btw. He's nowhere near Galactus' level and guardians are low skyfathers at best. I bet you're gonna blow up after this comment. 👆

Krona was destroying universes straight up and absorbing them. Galactus wishes he was that powerful.

Guardians are spectre level in power. That's a step beyond your Odins and Galactus.

And Spectre overpowered IG and UN combined and was straight up shown peer to LT.

Get mad.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, operator is killing him.

Awesome read 👆

1. The evidence supports Galactus being capable of destroying and consuming universes. A branching timeline branching directly from the events of FF 244 and effecting 616 strongly represents Galactus's capabilities.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57845/2109417-mega_galactus.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/2499608-letter_47.jpeg

2. Spectre AIDS the universes going back to the way they were once the power of the artifacts are no longer being utilized. Thus, Spectre is not overpowering any of them.

3. Spectre is shown as a peer of an LT sliver, not the multiversal LT.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
1. The evidence supports Galactus being capable of destroying and consuming universes. A branching timeline branching directly from the events of FF 244 and effecting 616 strongly represents Galactus's capabilities.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57845/2109417-mega_galactus.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/2499608-letter_47.jpeg

Lolwut? That's an alternate Galactus and his hunger was altered by Tiamut and even then he was absorbing the matter of the universe for 20 years and couldn't even destroy one universe.

2. Spectre AIDS the universes going back to the way they were once the power of the artifacts are no longer being utilized. Thus, Spectre is not overpowering any of them.

That's not mentioned anywhere. And he had to overpower the artifacts themselves to separate them.

And the universes were not being unmerged on their own.

3. Spectre is shown as a peer of an LT sliver, not the multiversal LT.

😂

Just making shit up now, eh?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
1. The evidence supports Galactus being capable of destroying and consuming universes. A branching timeline branching directly from the events of FF 244 and effecting 616 strongly represents Galactus's capabilities.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57845/2109417-mega_galactus.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/2499608-letter_47.jpeg

2. Spectre AIDS the universes going back to the way they were once the power of the artifacts are no longer being utilized. Thus, Spectre is not overpowering any of them.

3. Spectre is shown as a peer of an LT sliver, not the multiversal LT.