Odin vs Pre Crisis Darkseid

Originally posted by operator616
Already posted and got ignored as everything else.

😂

😂 Another prime example of why you should just stop debating about PC characters which you know nothing about.

Dr Fate was significantly depowered ever since the early golden age. This is, after all, the same Dr Fate who was beaten by the shining night, Dr who or just a random giant (not to mention 2 random thugs). He couldn't affect immaterial beings and had a horrible weakness in his lungs. He was more of a physical powerhouse than a magician at that point. The only time where his full powers returned (and even that was retconned later on) was when he faced the Spectre in All-Star squadron which takes place in the golden age but a bit after his depowerment.

Hahaha, WTF? Fate was only depowered when he had the half helmet.

He had the full helmet and continued channeling the full power of Nabu.

In All Star Squadron, the helmet was flung across the multiverse but Fate found it before Silver Age. Heck, half helmet Fate fought Spectre to a double KO.

Stop making shit up like this to just lowball characters. Where the **** was he depowered in Silver Age? Scans now or shut the **** up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Stop making shit up like this to just lowball characters.

Irony.

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Hahaha, WTF? Fate was only depowered when he had the half helmet.

He had the full helmet and continued channeling the full power of Nabu.

In All Star Squadron, the helmet was flung across the multiverse but Fate found it before Silver Age. Heck, half helmet Fate fought Spectre to a double KO.

Stop making shit up like this to just lowball characters. Where the **** was he depowered in Silver Age? Scans now or shut the **** up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Meltdown. He's once again exposing your ignorance which happens pretty much every week. Learn from him. 🙂

Yep

😂

Oh caver.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep

Originally posted by abhilegend
I already did.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29544984/RCO015_1468222972.jpg.html

Learn to read.

A scan which perfectly fits in with my argyment while contradicting your own. Show me a scan which specifically states that the early adventure comics were a controller TT.

I have provided official retellings which outright contradict yours and say that It was the regular TT who was present there:

http://imgur.com/It0LkQU

http://imgur.com/htSmYlF

And you still haven't addressed the glorith part which is an important plot point of legion v4. v4 references the early legion stories where (the real) TT reduced her to protoplasm leading her to her revenge against him in v4.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Why are you outright ignoring that Darkseid was compared to the Entropy avatar version of Time Trapper and earlier showings do not matter in such comparison as it was always a controller in those stories?

It's irrelevant either way because this point of yours is dependent on whether he was amped or not. Which he was, but you don't seem to agree so no point in debating this part when we don't agree on the basis.

Originally posted by abhilegend

So I take it, you do not have any counter? Concession accepted.
What was the purpose behind that?

Go re-read that part of your post. It's so hilarious that it doesn't even deserve a response. I mean, what, am I supposed to disprove that GL/Superman are abstract level beings who are far above Odin? 😂 I think you were high when you wrote that.

Then again, there's always the spam bot possibility.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And yet you dismissed Darkseid compared to TT by saying "even stargrave was compared to TT in those days."

What was the purpose behind that?

Because unlike the omnipotent being you're trying to portray him to be, Stargrave was defeated by a double punch from wildfire and Superboy while they tanked his attacks:

http://imgur.com/rlgFF3Q
http://imgur.com/BPKWSLX

I know you're gonna try and say that Stargrave is above Odin, but I'm tired of your shit, it's getting old.

He was impressive no doubt, but not on entropy trapper level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, what was I thinking? Mon-el was actually superior to Thanos.

Not falling into your trap yet again. Nice try though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, that's just how comics work.

No they don't actually. If we base characters off one showings every herald level character would be skyfather+ level. We base power levels on average portrayals, that's how it works.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Perikkus alone was beating his ass until a young Thor was endangered.

Perikkus was merely ordered to execute Odin, before that, Odin was the one who was handling the beating.

http://imgur.com/J7EJfsO
http://imgur.com/u1FGDR4

OF Thor stomped Perrikus in Thor #53 though, and at that point OF Thor was still considerably below standard Odin.

And anyway, perikkus is supposed to be unimpressive? He tanked Thor's anti-force (a new concept at that time from what I recall and later stated to be planet-wrecking attack) easily. He stomped and broke Thor's hammer as well. Dark Gods were pretty powerful.

Also, a weakened Odin infused thor with OF enough to go against Thanos who gained multi-universal power later on. Let PC Darkseid match that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And channeling his own power.

And we all know how Darkseid's technological devices weren't amping his power in that story.

Oh wait. It did. A thousand fold, actually:

http://imgur.com/y1Hfrbi

Although I never knew that being able to generate red solar energy (depowering superman) was part of Darkseid's power set. Must be one of those obscure powers he suddenly starts to display just like in GDS.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Hunger dogs is mentioned in Action Comics 586.

You seriously want to go there? Alright.

Yes, it was referenced in AC 586 which is part of the Legends crossover when continuity was still flexible and new gods post-Crisis continuity was still not established. It was non-canonized in a letter's page of New Gods v2 #14:

http://imgur.com/nHHsewh

And #19:

http://imgur.com/NU8HWqj

Originally posted by abhilegend
And even then got a hole blasted in her while she had the odinpower and all the dark gods by a lightning blast from Thor.

Weak.

Mordru's magic was drained by WW by his own spell.

Jane Thor was beating Odin's ass all over the solar system while he was bloodlusted. Forget Superboy.

Godblast. Which merely allowed Odin the opening he needed to reclaim his power.

And what is your point here anyway? Odin has shown to be capable of instantly draining Thor's power while sitting on his throne on asgard while Thor being on Earth. And he's done it multiple times. He depowered Thor to half strength in JiM #101 (as well as in Thor #126), he nullified the enchantment easily in JiM #113 (precenting blake from becoming Thor), etc..

I wasn't referring to Legion of 3 worlds. I was referring to LOSH #300. The spell was devised by her teachers on sorcerer's world.

http://imgur.com/L77XfuK

Originally posted by abhilegend
In DC challenge, he turned Earth into a reality bomb which would've destroyed the universe and both Spectre and Dr. Fate combined could only delay it.

And DC Challenge is definitely canon.

But lulz @ you trying to act tough as if you haven't been exposed enough in this thread.

Lol what? He didn't do shit under his own power and used machines and technological devices as usual.

No it's definitely non canon just like I said. But unlike you I have proof as always. This is in issue #1 of the series and the editor himself confirmed it's out of continuity from the beginning:

http://imgur.com/8jDr3rN

And confirmed later on as well:

http://imgur.com/UuHd8JH

Even you must realize how ironic that "ive been exposed enough" statement of yours sounds now. 😂 just keep your mouth shut up from now on will you?

Originally posted by abhilegend
GDS is his most memorable appearance. If anything, its his standard appearance from then.

And most memorable automatically translates to the most standard. Because that's just how things work right?

Joker is most memorable for the emperor joker arc where he was omnipotent so naturally we must assume that this is his standard appearance.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Lolwut? The scan itself says that the entire universe was embroiled in the war.

Do you even read the scans you are posting?

I do, but honestly how could your comprehension skills be that bad? Read the scan again and pay attention to the context.

http://imgur.com/ldpeaEK

The scan clearly says that the war extended further, meaning it was not local anymore, isolated to the Apokolips/New Genesis solar system.

Also, let's divert from the point as usual. Which is that they were aiming to destroy each other's planets and this scan outright states it.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Galactus was never stated to be weakened in fact in the story itself. The only mention of such is from an out of continuity bio from Thor annual 14.

He expended his energy while fighting Ego either way. And it was a shared feat anyway, between Thor and Ego.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yes, a gnat. Unless you think Odin is Time Trapper or Infinite Man level is.

👆

Spasming like a bot wouldn't work here.

So basically, your opinion is that Odin is literally nothing, a mere gnat, compared to PC (weakened) Darkseid?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Hahaha, WTF? Fate was only depowered when he had the half helmet.

He had the full helmet and continued channeling the full power of Nabu.

In All Star Squadron, the helmet was flung across the multiverse but Fate found it before Silver Age. Heck, half helmet Fate fought Spectre to a double KO.

Stop making shit up like this to just lowball characters. Where the **** was he depowered in Silver Age? Scans now or shut the **** up.

😂 Ok....
It amazes me how you're still using the condensing tone when you've been literally wrong about every single thing. Let me break this down for you.

What first you have to realize is that terms like "full helmet" and "half helmet" weren't used back then in the golden age when he changed it; it literally had no explanation whatsoever and the writers just gradually started decreasing his power level. For example, in more fun comics #60 he nullified a the norn's power (pretty powerful beings) to create life, then next issue he pushed a planet into the sun just like that. I don't even recall him losing to anyone before that issue and he was absolutely invulnerable, then out of the blue in #72 appears the half helmet and then:

MFC #73: Loses against mr who
#77: Loses against a giant.
#78: Owned by 3 random thugs strangling him with a rope. #79: Owned by Mr. Who.
#80: Beaten by 2 random thugs. Then beaten by Octopus.
#90, 91, 98: Beaten by random thugs.
#92: Beaten by the Clock.

You can see how his powers (which were never officially changed back then from what I recall) went down the hill, all the way down.

then again the "full helmet" appears in the silver age, randomly just like the "half helmet, with no association to it being made in regards to his power level whatsoever (meaning by then the terms were irrelevant, those were all invented in the 80s in All-Star Squadron). Note that he had magical powers but this is no surprise because while his "official" powers weren't magical anymore, he did use them even back in the golden age (like energy projection in #73, or magnetic powers and tp in other instances from what I recall). Most importantly though, he still had the lung vulnerability weakness which he literally developed just after the half helmet concept appeared out of nowhere.

This is an example from World's finest #208 (silver age not golden age):

http://imgur.com/enPwtl7

He was later also getting easily stomped by Grundy. Only after that time period did the whole half/full helmet concept was introduced in All Star Squadron, and continuity was consistent. you fail to realize that I view character power levels from a chronological perspective (you have to know what the intention was back then while putting aside the retcon).

But you're wrong again that PC Fate had access to the full power of Nabu. It was first mentioned in the Dr Fate v1 mini that the full power of Dr Fate can only be achieved by the merging of two people, couples:

http://imgur.com/s4vXgBk

confirmed in v2:

http://imgur.com/DDYKRYY

And restated in Fate #0:

http://imgur.com/JRZIM9k

So Silver Age Fate never wielded Nabu's full power to begin with.

Yes, Fate and Spectre did KO each other. But have you read how the Spectre was actually portrayed in the 1940s era (which is where ASS takes place)? He was part of the JSA but was downgraded to a pathetic piece of shit in their comics (back then All star comics). This is basically how pathetic Spectre was back then:

All Star comics (1940s title) #5: A queer ring nullifies spectre’s powers.
#13: KO’d when mere thugs withdrew air from the room.
#17: Was reduced to 1/10th of his size by Brainwave, and couldn’t get bigger until the thunderbolt made him bigger, and had problems with thugs.
#20: Stalemates the monster who also gets away from him, then gets clobbered by him a second time.
#23: Was nearly KO’d by mere gas.

Which is why ASS annual #3 later retconned him into growing gradually in terms of power level via Zor's dialogue. Mind you in the golden age he was still powerful but not in the JSA comics. Which is why Ostrander even outright stated that Spectre could have solo'd all JSA's missions and villains back then.

Anything else you want clarified regarding your PC ignorance? Btw, if you want any scans just ask, I just couldn't post every single instance I referenced, but I specifically put up issue #s so that you could check them if you wanted.

Originally posted by operator616
A scan which perfectly fits in with my argyment while contradicting your own. Show me a scan which specifically states that the early adventure comics were a controller TT.

I have provided official retellings which outright contradict yours and say that It was the regular TT who was present there:

http://imgur.com/It0LkQU

http://imgur.com/htSmYlF

Haha, what? The bio flat out states that the subsequent encounters with TT was of controller and Trapper himself says that in LOSH v3 38. I mean, can you read or what?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29544984/RCO015_1468222972.jpg.html

Your desperation to lowball Darkseid by any mean has gone all time low.

And you still haven't addressed the glorith part which is an important plot point of legion v4. v4 references the early legion stories where (the real) TT reduced her to protoplasm leading her to her revenge against him in v4.

Altered timeline where not all of things went as originally did. All of that doesn't reduce his power levels in the least.

It's irrelevant either way because this point of yours is dependent on whether he was amped or not. Which he was, but you don't seem to agree so no point in debating this part when we don't agree on the basis.

You haven't produced a single evidence other than an ambiguous bio which says he may have other abilities. Not amped in power.

But somehow he was amped because you say so. GTFO.

Go re-read that part of your post. It's so hilarious that it doesn't even deserve a response. I mean, what, am I supposed to disprove that GL/Superman are abstract level beings who are far above Odin? 😂 I think you were high when you wrote that.

But aren't you thumping your chest with Odin destroying galaxies or shaking multiverse?

I just gave you a better feat. You should be gaga over it. But you seem rather butthurt about it. I wonder why.

Then again, there's always the spam bot possibility.

Thou doth protest too much.

Because unlike the omnipotent being you're trying to portray him to be, Stargrave was defeated by a double punch from wildfire and Superboy while they tanked his attacks:

http://imgur.com/rlgFF3Q
http://imgur.com/BPKWSLX

Ah, here comes the lowballing part. Doesn't that mean they were so powerful and not that Stargrave was so powerful?

But I forgot, that only works for marvel characters.

"Mangog is so powerful because he defeated Odin."

Oh you jester you.

I know you're gonna try and say that Stargrave is above Odin, but I'm tired of your shit, it's getting old.

Well he is. Show me Odin stopping two universes colliding with each other with a wave of his hands.

Oh I forgot, he was killed like every other being in the universe in an incursion.

Too bad.

He was impressive no doubt, but not on entropy trapper level.

And he was compared to Controller TT who he released. Not Entropy TT.

That was Darkseid.

Not falling into your trap yet again. Nice try though.

Concession accepted. Move along.

No they don't actually. If we base characters off one showings every herald level character would be skyfather+ level. We base power levels on average portrayals, that's how it works.

Except for pre crisis characters where only their lowest feats matter. And marvel characters where only highest feats matter.

And on average he was that powerful and consistently compared to Time Trapper and Infinite Man in power.

Perikkus was merely ordered to execute Odin, before that, Odin was the one who was handling the beating.

http://imgur.com/J7EJfsO
http://imgur.com/u1FGDR4[/quote]

Lolwut? Odin was giving the beating while being on the ground and about to get killed? Way to omit scans though.

And all Odin needed was a broken spear to beat the all powerful Dark Gods?

OF Thor stomped Perrikus in Thor #53 though, and at that point OF Thor was still considerably below standard Odin.

Wait, and Perrikus alone defeated Odin? And King Thor exhausted himself just recreating the moon.

So OF Thor>Perrikkus>Odin.

And anyway, perikkus is supposed to be unimpressive? He tanked Thor's anti-force (a new concept at that time from what I recall and later stated to be planet-wrecking attack) easily. He stomped and broke Thor's hammer as well. Dark Gods were pretty powerful.

Except Thor blew a hole in all dark gods combined with a lightning attack. Mjolnir was weakened due to Enrakt inhabiting it anyway. A moon level King Thor stomped the **** out of Perrikus.

So yes, he was unimpressive as ****.

Also, a weakened Odin infused thor with OF enough to go against Thanos who gained multi-universal power later on. Let PC Darkseid match that.

Ha, he was getting killed until he broke the chalice. Darkseid casually creating Validus shits on anything Odin has done in terms of creation.

And we all know how Darkseid's technological devices weren't amping his power in that story.

Haha, really?

Oh wait. It did. A thousand fold, actually:

http://imgur.com/y1Hfrbi[quote]

That was for destroying earth only.

No where the neural machine was amplifying his power.

[quote]Although I never knew that being able to generate red solar energy (depowering superman) was part of Darkseid's power set. Must be one of those obscure powers he suddenly starts to display just like in GDS.

Yes, just like Odin beating Dark Gods with a broken spear.

😂

Originally posted by operator616
You seriously want to go there? Alright.

Yes, it was referenced in AC 586 which is part of the Legends crossover when continuity was still flexible and new gods post-Crisis continuity was still not established. It was non-canonized in a letter's page of New Gods v2 #14:

http://imgur.com/nHHsewh

And #19:

http://imgur.com/NU8HWqj

crylaugh

Now on panel canon stories are rendered non canon by letter pages?

Hahaha. Oh you jester.

Godblast. Which merely allowed Odin the opening he needed to reclaim his power.

Not godblast. Explicitly. He channeled a storm with his own life force.

And Godblast is pretty weak anyway, it couldn't do anything to Juggernaut and was explicitly stated to be only able to knock out Ego for a brief time.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29569843/ThorrefersGodblast.jpg.html

I mean, what a weak attack.

And what is your point here anyway? Odin has shown to be capable of instantly draining Thor's power while sitting on his throne on asgard while Thor being on Earth. And he's done it multiple times. He depowered Thor to half strength in JiM #101 (as well as in Thor #126), he nullified the enchantment easily in JiM #113 (precenting blake from becoming Thor), etc..

Because he is the one giving power to Thor. Where was that power when Jane was bashing his face in while throwing him around solar system like a ping pong ball?

I wasn't referring to Legion of 3 worlds. I was referring to LOSH #300. The spell was devised by her teachers on sorcerer's world.

http://imgur.com/L77XfuK

Who have depowered Mordru before. Not a bad showing by any means.

Lol what? He didn't do shit under his own power and used machines and technological devices as usual.

Hahaha. Oh the sheer gall here.

No it's definitely non canon just like I said. But unlike you I have proof as always. This is in issue #1 of the series and the editor himself confirmed it's out of continuity from the beginning:

http://imgur.com/8jDr3rN

And confirmed later on as well:

http://imgur.com/UuHd8JH

Yes, the story was out of continuity of the post crisis universe since it too in pre crisis history and Wonder Woman not being returned to clay was done in COIE.

And it directly references pre crisis history. Like in here.

Get it, letters pages are not substitute for actual on panel facts.

Even you must realize how ironic that "ive been exposed enough" statement of yours sounds now. 😂 just keep your mouth shut up from now on will you?

Haha, rich coming from you. Why don't you post some more letter pages?

And most memorable automatically translates to the most standard. Because that's just how things work right?

If its referenced everywhere, sure.

Joker is most memorable for the emperor joker arc where he was omnipotent so naturally we must assume that this is his standard appearance.

Joke had Mxy's power. And Joker is not most memorable for Emperor Joker you little goon.

Its The Killing Joke or a lot of Batman's stories. Emperor Joker is never even mentioned as a must read story for Joker. Nice strawman though.

I do, but honestly how could your comprehension skills be that bad? Read the scan again and pay attention to the context.

Haha, seriously?

http://imgur.com/ldpeaEK

The scan clearly says that the war extended further, meaning it was not local anymore, isolated to the Apokolips/New Genesis solar system.

And here comes the twisting of words.

What you said was that the war was merely confined in a solar system. Now when you get caught up by your scans, you backpaddled by saying it later expanded to the rest of the universe later.

😂

You flip flop like its going out of Zop.

Also, let's divert from the point as usual. Which is that they were aiming to destroy each other's planets and this scan outright states it.

And those planets were the size of galaxies by some depictions and Godworld itself was bigger than biggest stars. Not that destroying Apokolips is as easy as any other planet.

He expended his energy while fighting Ego either way. And it was a shared feat anyway, between Thor and Ego.

No, Thor was the one who defeated him and unlike your new god references it was explicitly compared to Odin's.

Thor>Galactus~Odin.

What a bunch of weaklings.

So basically, your opinion is that Odin is literally nothing, a mere gnat, compared to PC (weakened) Darkseid?

Yes, unless you think Odin is comparable to Time Trapper and Infinite Man.

C'mon man, just go with the full marvel wankery and admit your bias already.

Ok....
It amazes me how you're still using the condensing tone when you've been literally wrong about every single thing. Let me break this down for you.

Haha, the sheer delusion here is marvelous.

What first you have to realize is that terms like "full helmet" and "half helmet" weren't used back then in the golden age when he changed it; it literally had no explanation whatsoever and the writers just gradually started decreasing his power level. For example, in more fun comics #60 he nullified a the norn's power (pretty powerful beings) to create life, then next issue he pushed a planet into the sun just like that. I don't even recall him losing to anyone before that issue and he was absolutely invulnerable, then out of the blue in #72 appears the half helmet and then:

MFC #73: Loses against mr who
#77: Loses against a giant.
#78: Owned by 3 random thugs strangling him with a rope. #79: Owned by Mr. Who.
#80: Beaten by 2 random thugs. Then beaten by Octopus.
#90, 91, 98: Beaten by random thugs.
#92: Beaten by the Clock.

Its called a retcon you little goon. From All Star Squadron 23, its explicitly stated that his powers were reduced to mere physical aspects with the half helmet.

You can see how his powers (which were never officially changed back then from what I recall) went down the hill, all the way down.

then again the "full helmet" appears in the silver age, randomly just like the "half helmet, with no association to it being made in regards to his power level whatsoever (meaning by then the terms were irrelevant, those were all invented in the 80s in All-Star Squadron). Note that he had magical powers but this is no surprise because while his "official" powers weren't magical anymore, he did use them even back in the golden age (like energy projection in #73, or magnetic powers and tp in other instances from what I recall). Most importantly though, he still had the lung vulnerability weakness which he literally developed just after the half helmet concept appeared out of nowhere.

This is an example from World's finest #208 (silver age not golden age):

http://imgur.com/enPwtl7

And yet, he was still powerful enough to knock out Spectre with one bullrush.

Or defeat Lords of Chaos powerful enough to endanger entire Multiverse.

http://imgur.com/a/qICPa#0

Or defeat another Lord of Chaos.

http://i.imgur.com/kh3ydgI.jpg

Or being nearly as powerful as Spectre with full helmet.

http://i.imgur.com/5sF3KTK.jpg

Or tap into the power of creation itself.

http://i.imgur.com/oOgZ5g3.jpg

He was just a weakling yo!

Spectre was a weakling too!

So was Time Trapper!

Everyone was weakling by random low showings from 40s!

He was later also getting easily stomped by Grundy. Only after that time period did the whole half/full helmet concept was introduced in All Star Squadron, and continuity was consistent. you fail to realize that I view character power levels from a chronological perspective (you have to know what the intention was back then while putting aside the retcon).

Grundy was able to absorb the magic of Fate and was a beast in his own regard.

I don't give a shit about how you view the characters.

But you're wrong again that PC Fate had access to the full power of Nabu. It was first mentioned in the Dr Fate v1 mini that the full power of Dr Fate can only be achieved by the merging of two people, couples:

http://imgur.com/s4vXgBk

Another retcon. Post crisis that is and which is forgotten again since. But where is the chronology now?

confirmed in v2:

http://imgur.com/DDYKRYY

And restated in Fate #0:

http://imgur.com/JRZIM9k

So Silver Age Fate never wielded Nabu's full power to begin with.

Yeah, that's just idiotic.

Yes, Fate and Spectre did KO each other. But have you read how the Spectre was actually portrayed in the 1940s era (which is where ASS takes place)? He was part of the JSA but was downgraded to a pathetic piece of shit in their comics (back then All star comics). This is basically how pathetic Spectre was back then:

Its good that it wasn't back in 40s. It happened in 80s and Spectre was a different beast then.

All Star comics (1940s title) #5: A queer ring nullifies spectre’s powers.
#13: KO’d when mere thugs withdrew air from the room.
#17: Was reduced to 1/10th of his size by Brainwave, and couldn’t get bigger until the thunderbolt made him bigger, and had problems with thugs.
#20: Stalemates the monster who also gets away from him, then gets clobbered by him a second time.
#23: Was nearly KO’d by mere gas.

All star squadron 27: Spectre threw Fate across entire multiverse and is outright stated to be more powerful than Nabu.

http://i.imgur.com/HXc3wrQ.jpg

Add a lot of other feats from 80s.

Which is why ASS annual #3 later retconned him into growing gradually in terms of power level via Zor's dialogue. Mind you in the golden age he was still powerful but not in the JSA comics. Which is why Ostrander even outright stated that Spectre could have solo'd all JSA's missions and villains back then.

It didn't happen in All Star comics. It happened in All Star Squadron.

And Ostrander retconned that Spectre was always at half power until Jim Corrigon went to heaven.

Anything else you want clarified regarding your PC ignorance? Btw, if you want any scans just ask, I just couldn't post every single instance I referenced, but I specifically put up issue #s so that you could check them if you wanted.

Haha, all this nonsense and you didn't post a single scan of Fate being weakened in the fight with Mordru. In fact he was amped with the power of Hal and Alan who were absolute beasts in silver age.

But all of them were weaklings because of random low showings, right?

Your desperation is palpable. In order to lowball Darkseid, you've lowballed nearly everyone in pre crisis universe.

What a bunch of weaklings. If only Krona (a random Guardian and an average skyfather in DC) didn't stomp the everloving shit out of Galactus and made him his *****. Or Kismet being a peer to Eternity. Or Spectre overpowering the IG and UN in separating the universes.

But DC skyfathers are somehow less powerful than marvel ones.

😂

Both Marvel and DC get screwily inconsistent and unrealistic about power levels once you jump too far beyond the hero level.

But DC is EXTRA screwy. Guys like Anti-Monitor and certain portrayals of Darkseid will be presented as universal threats, and yet also slug it out with heroes. At DC, if you collect 5 Supermen from hypertime you suddenly have a universal threat.

So good luck making any comparisons here.

Originally posted by operator616
😂 Ok....
It amazes me how you're still using the condensing tone when you've been literally wrong about every single thing. Let me break this down for you.

What first you have to realize is that terms like "full helmet" and "half helmet" weren't used back then in the golden age when he changed it; it literally had no explanation whatsoever and the writers just gradually started decreasing his power level. For example, in more fun comics #60 he nullified a the norn's power (pretty powerful beings) to create life, then next issue he pushed a planet into the sun just like that. I don't even recall him losing to anyone before that issue and he was absolutely invulnerable, then out of the blue in #72 appears the half helmet and then:

MFC #73: Loses against mr who
#77: Loses against a giant.
#78: Owned by 3 random thugs strangling him with a rope. #79: Owned by Mr. Who.
#80: Beaten by 2 random thugs. Then beaten by Octopus.
#90, 91, 98: Beaten by random thugs.
#92: Beaten by the Clock.

You can see how his powers (which were never officially changed back then from what I recall) went down the hill, all the way down.

then again the "full helmet" appears in the silver age, randomly just like the "half helmet, with no association to it being made in regards to his power level whatsoever (meaning by then the terms were irrelevant, those were all invented in the 80s in All-Star Squadron). Note that he had magical powers but this is no surprise because while his "official" powers weren't magical anymore, he did use them even back in the golden age (like energy projection in #73, or magnetic powers and tp in other instances from what I recall). Most importantly though, he still had the lung vulnerability weakness which he literally developed just after the half helmet concept appeared out of nowhere.

This is an example from World's finest #208 (silver age not golden age):

http://imgur.com/enPwtl7

He was later also getting easily stomped by Grundy. Only after that time period did the whole half/full helmet concept was introduced in All Star Squadron, and continuity was consistent. you fail to realize that I view character power levels from a chronological perspective (you have to know what the intention was back then while putting aside the retcon).

But you're wrong again that PC Fate had access to the full power of Nabu. It was first mentioned in the Dr Fate v1 mini that the full power of Dr Fate can only be achieved by the merging of two people, couples:

http://imgur.com/s4vXgBk

confirmed in v2:

http://imgur.com/DDYKRYY

And restated in Fate #0:

http://imgur.com/JRZIM9k

So Silver Age Fate never wielded Nabu's full power to begin with.

Yes, Fate and Spectre did KO each other. But have you read how the Spectre was actually portrayed in the 1940s era (which is where ASS takes place)? He was part of the JSA but was downgraded to a pathetic piece of shit in their comics (back then All star comics). This is basically how pathetic Spectre was back then:

All Star comics (1940s title) #5: A queer ring nullifies spectre’s powers.
#13: KO’d when mere thugs withdrew air from the room.
#17: Was reduced to 1/10th of his size by Brainwave, and couldn’t get bigger until the thunderbolt made him bigger, and had problems with thugs.
#20: Stalemates the monster who also gets away from him, then gets clobbered by him a second time.
#23: Was nearly KO’d by mere gas.

Which is why ASS annual #3 later retconned him into growing gradually in terms of power level via Zor's dialogue. Mind you in the golden age he was still powerful but not in the JSA comics. Which is why Ostrander even outright stated that Spectre could have solo'd all JSA's missions and villains back then.

Anything else you want clarified regarding your PC ignorance? Btw, if you want any scans just ask, I just couldn't post every single instance I referenced, but I specifically put up issue #s so that you could check them if you wanted.

You guys are still doing this circular thing? Jesus.

Well I give you an A+ for perseverance, at least. 👆

Well Operator would lowball entire DC universe if needs be to show how weak Darkseid was.

It's quite amusing actually.

I don't even care who's winning, the back and forth is class A entertainment.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I saved this link which confirms the weakness and I cod site to showis of the PC characters. Nicely done. Well articulated and all confirmed. Abhi got worked.

👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well Operator would lowball entire DC universe if needs be to show how weak Darkseid was.

It's quite amusing actually.

It's a sad thing that you actually think I'm lowballing. You seem to think that Pre Crisis DC is filled with omnipotent super heroes and villains when in fact that were portrayed not unlike their post-Crisis versions. You also think that what I'm referencing are outliers and lows when they're just plain average portrayals of the characters. I mean, you thought TT was an abstract when he was basically an evil scientist type character....

but you know what's the best part? I actually thought that you knew how they were portrayed on average which is why I thought it's unnecessary to post scans because that's just basic knowledge. Now I know better though, ill post every single scan to shut you down.

Reported for lowballing sly

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? The bio flat out states that the subsequent encounters with TT was of controller and Trapper himself says that in LOSH v3 38. I mean, can you read or what?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/29544984/RCO015_1468222972.jpg.html

Your desperation to lowball Darkseid by any mean has gone all time low.

When referring to GDS, the bio specifically said the time trapper clone; while his early encounters with legion were merely stated to be "time trapper" not "time trapper clone".

You still haven't addressed these I see:

http://imgur.com/It0LkQU

http://imgur.com/htSmYlF

Which is understandable because they shit all over your argument.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Altered timeline where not all of things went as originally did. All of that doesn't reduce his power levels in the least.

But that specific instance went exactly as it did originally, it was even referenced just like it happened back then:

http://imgur.com/N360qiI
http://imgur.com/WubxzrO

Originally posted by abhilegend

You haven't produced a single evidence other than an ambiguous bio which says he may have other abilities. Not amped in power.

But somehow he was amped because you say so. GTFO.

When he absorbed the second artifact he literally said "i am fulfilled" after which he absorbed TT/Controller and Mordru. Mordru alone is a skyfather, that by itself proves that he was amped.

Not to mention the new abilities which he developed, and something interesting I realized while reviewing the original war. in the original Apokolips/New Genesis war, Darkseid sought desperate means to win the war, so he had Metron develop teleportation technology to give them the edge (boom tubes):

http://imgur.com/nWy5HpT
http://imgur.com/0EINMKZ
http://imgur.com/P3ix01j
http://imgur.com/vfhG1Hy

Now why would he do that when he could just open big space warps like he did in GDS? It was after all a significant point in the war. And in the entirety of his appearances he has never ever opened a space warp, I'm pretty sure about that.

Also, you are basically saying that standard Darkseid is capable of mindraping several billion Superman level beings. I don't need to emphasize how ridiculous this sounds. I have established previously how Darkseid has failed to mindrape single human individuals by extracting the secrets he needed. Literally everything seems to suggest that he was amped.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But aren't you thumping your chest with Odin destroying galaxies or shaking multiverse?

I just gave you a better feat. You should be gaga over it. But you seem rather butthurt about it. I wonder why.

Because it's out of context, ive already provided the context of that feat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, here comes the lowballing part. Doesn't that mean they were so powerful and not that Stargrave was so powerful?

But I forgot, that only works for marvel characters.

"Mangog is so powerful because he defeated Odin."

Oh you jester you.

No, because Mangog was stated to be a greater threat than Ego. And because of the Orikal instance I referenced.

Yes, you're gonna start lowballing them too, i know, but don't divert from the main point: that I'm not using circular logic (Mangog is powerful because he defeated Odin, and Odin defeated Mangog thus he is extremely impressive). Ive actually provided other feats. I don't want to hear the lowballing yet again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well he is. Show me Odin stopping two universes colliding with each other with a wave of his hands.

Oh I forgot, he was killed like every other being in the universe in an incursion.

Too bad.

You are simply unable to grasp comic feats. What Stargrave did was a localized event. He sealed off a localized reality crack which if it was widened will threaten reality.

going by your logic Thor is a reality buster since he was able to crack a small portion of reality in Thor #204:

http://imgur.com/jjD5pSg

Forget about Odin.

Granted, Stargrave's feat is obviously more impressive than Thor's but the point must be quite clear.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And he was compared to Controller TT who he released. Not Entropy TT.

That was Darkseid.

I know he was compared to the weaker TT back in the day. But you are comparing him with entropy TT as well.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except for pre crisis characters where only their lowest feats matter. And marvel characters where only highest feats matter.

And on average he was that powerful and consistently compared to Time Trapper and Infinite Man in power.

So Darkseid was consistently entropy TT/Infinite Man level? 😂 your ignorance and bias truly have no bounds

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lolwut? Odin was giving the beating while being on the ground and about to get killed? Way to omit scans though.

And all Odin needed was a broken spear to beat the all powerful Dark Gods?

Wait, and Perrikus alone defeated Odin? And King Thor exhausted himself just recreating the moon.

So OF Thor>Perrikkus>Odin.

Except Thor blew a hole in all dark gods combined with a lightning attack. Mjolnir was weakened due to Enrakt inhabiting it anyway. A moon level King Thor stomped the **** out of Perrikus.

So yes, he was unimpressive as ****.

What scans did I omit? Those two scans are in chronological order. Odin was stomping Perrikus as shown in the first scan then off panel shit happens and suddenly we see Odin on the ground in the second scan. There's no way of telling how he was defeated. So your statement of "perrikus was beating Odin's ass" is completely baseless.

No he didn't. Just like the scan says: It was young Thor's presence and bold move which re-motivated and empowered Odin to defeat them.

Thor subconsciously held the OF in check and didn't use to its full potential. He basically had self imposed limitations. It was confirmed 3 issues after the moon instance.

http://imgur.com/gI40y7e

Also, let's not forget that Thor actually imprisoned the sun-empowered creature apart from re-creating the moon.

Odin >>>>>> Perrikus.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Ha, he was getting killed until he broke the chalice. Darkseid casually creating Validus shits on anything Odin has done in terms of creation.

So basically he was holding his own against a multi universal power. good to know.

Meanwhile, Super powers Darkseid (which is non canon but usable according to you) is having trouble with Red tornado, hawkman and green arrow. 😂 Among other things I just don't care to remember. He was a joke in those series. No idea why would you even reference them.

http://imgur.com/8atKOYQ
http://imgur.com/GnQgckv

This is Super powers collection btw, and is as much cannon as your SP v2 scans. In other words, non canon at all but suit yourself.

I'm still waiting to see what makes him impressive in that series.