At what point (in terms of length, I assume) do posts become unquotable? Because then it's a pest and a pain to even format a response. Though this might be the same for you, Zoltan.
Yes you are nitpicking. Somehow you want to dismiss every accolade I brought up on the baseless ground that they are either unquantifiable or hyperbolic.
Nitpicking? Dismissing? Hardly. The fact that the accolade makes him out to be an impressive swordsman hasn't escaped me, nor do I deny that. What I'm asking you is just how impressive does it make him out to be? Sidious tier? Bondara tier? In between? And if so, where? Accolades are only as useful as they are mensurable.
By the same logic the B-Team's best duelist of the history of the Order is also unquantifiable. And every accolade ever that doesn't specifically put you over someone or everyone is also unquantifiable. Of the later which Traya has exactly 0.Either bring up a saber accolade for Traya so we can compare them or suck it up and stop nagging me to quantify accolades for you.
I don't care what you think is hyperbolic crap, I could say the same about half of KotOR II. The fact is that accolades such as that are significantly better than Traya's nonexistent ones. Hyperbolic or not.
Didn't know I have to particularly strain myself to prove Marek's accolades are superior to Traya's nonexistent ones.
It should be apparent by the fact that I'm arguing on the basis of feats rather than accolades that I'm conceding the accolade war. Should we turn this into a feats war? Because pre-Felucia Galen doesn't exactly have a lot going for him.
Let's bridge the gap between these feat-extreme and accolade-extreme comparisons, rather than suggesting outright superiority because you have more or better of this than the other.
You say that as if that was the base of my argument, it was a side note. On the other hand I guess there goes any proof that Traya mastered a single lightsaber form, let alone Juyo.
I was actually hoping to receive a direct quote proving Cin's mastery of the forms, but that aside, I think it's pretty obvious that he did.
As for Kreia, there's the fact that you can learn Juyo from Master Kavar, who goes on to comment that you've mastered the form. Yet after that you can continue to seek instruction on it from Kreia. Obviously Kavar etc. is a master of the form, yet in the DS fights against him and the others, Kreia's capable of analyzing his form and its weaknesses and telepathically relaying them to you, something that I doubt anybody short of a master could do.
So Traya was faster, great. Good for her.
Do you sincerely believe that all it takes is speed for you to do something like that? I mean, when Sidious blitzes the B-Team and Yoda curbs the three Jedi, it's usually taken to be all facets of combat (ie. combat skill, speed, etc.), not just speed. This is no different. Unless, of course, you don't believe skill had any bearing in the other two scenarios.
Shaak Ti outpacing Galen is a better speed feat anyway.
How so? Even provided that Galen's faster than Brianna, simply outpacing someone isn't remotely comparable to dodging all of someone's blows effortlessly without even appearing to move (ie. blitz-tier difference).
By the same line of thought. Qui-Gon was better than Anoon who was a superior Juyo master than Atris.
What's this based on? Bondara being one of the most skilled Jedi of his time? Atris would be as well, per only the most skilled Force users being able to learn Juyo. Anoon's accolade that makes him out to be the most skilled swordsman is based on the opinions of those who obviously don't have enough knowledge to judge - it's much like the Mandalorians considering Kavar the greatest warrior in the Order until they met Revan. And Atris is better than Kavar, by the way.
TPM Kenobi was almost Qui-Gon's equal, who a decade later was inferior to a holding back Kit Fisto who 3 years of war later had equal speed feat to a 16 years pre-prime Shaak Ti.
Still doesn't justify the level of speed disparity between Traya and Brianna.
So not only you pushing the cut content
If you disagree on evidence from the game files being usable, then we can agree to disagree and spare ourselves the problem of dragging this out without results on either side.
now the dark side path is legit too? Right whatever, nm.
If you can prove to me how a few dialogue changes make Traya disproportionately powerful, then be my guest. I doubt you can, though.
On the other hand, Traya doesn't Drain the Jedi Masters, and Atton/Brianna potentially absorbs the power within Freedon Nadd's Tomb, so if anything, only Atton/Brianna would get stronger, not Traya.
My point was to dismiss the counterargument of "it happened on a nexus" before it came up, because obviously the writers wanted to portray Traya's superiority regardless of environment or alignment.
So Sion was one of the best in KotOR II? That's impres...oh wait. You mean the era that was right after 3 devastatning wars on both sides and where Nihilus singe handedly wiped out the most powerful of the Jedi Order when he drained Katarr?
Not too long ago, I would've taken that quote from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia at face value, but seeing as to how it blatantly misrepresents so much of what happens in the game, I'm much less inclined to believe it. You also later make the distinction between being among the most powerful and the most skilled, yet you're implying that they're the same here. You can't have two bites of the cherry.
Sion killed scores of the weakest of the fodder and is put above other nameless fodders in the sith order where he joins the elit company of such great duelists such as...hmmmm...there must be one...hmmm. I got nothing.
Even outside of your low opinion of what Triumvirate Sith are capable of, you're dead wrong. Sion was killing numerous Jedi on the battlefields and regularly surviving such fights in the Exar Kun War - which would be before your "3 devastating wars". By this time, he was well before his prime and had yet to actually do his resurrecting shizz:
As a Marauder for the Sith Empire during the Great Sith War, Sion flings himself at the Jedi, seeking death, but instead, he finds the opposite. Regularly surviving the frontline pandemonium, Sion acquires a pain tolerance that convinces him of his immortality. Inevitably, probability has its day and Sion is struck down.-- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
With many Jedi of this time being experts in lightsaber and Force combat:
The many wars of the era compel large numbers of Jedi to become experts in lightsaber and force related combat. Some become masters on the battlefield; others become highly skilled duelists capable of taking on Dark Jedi and Sith in single combat.-- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
Sion's clearly an elite-caliber duelist by KotOR II, and Atton beating him whilst drowned in the dark side and with Sion receiving an equivalent amp is something I'd put as comparable to Bondara. Traya beating him in a "short, quick, brutal duel" surely puts her in league with your great lightsaber duelists, and once again, I'm not seeing Shaak being better.
I win.
There's actually even more sources supporting your point, but I'm not interested in debating this right now. I'll concede to accelerate the process.
As for the rest. That's pure bullshit. MagnaGuards are highly deadly opponents, and there was a whole group of them handpicked by Grievous. That's like saying Sidious blitzing the B-Team and beating Maul and Savage are no feats, because they weren't 1 on 1 lol.
Indeed? Perhaps you'd like to justify the vast disparity in Shaak's performance in part 1 of the fight, where she has only her lightsaber and is actually engaging them in single combat, and part 2, where she has the electrostaff and is fighting within the crowd, which sources have noted that she excels in?
Not to mention that earlier in the episode (ie. well before this scene), Shaak engages in one-on-one combat with Magnaguards with just her lightsaber and it's clearly not as easy for her to be destroying Magnaguards left-and-right as you're spouting here. The fact that Shaak only magically gains the ability to do so once she gets those advantages I listed makes it pretty clear that either those advantages are pretty game-changing, or it's pure PIS. Take your pick.
In fact, as you said earlier, two instances beats one. That's why Shaak having difficulty with a single Magnaguard twice takes precedence over her destroying Magnaguards left and right as a one-off. 👆