Great Battles Vol 1: Darth Plagueis vs. Vitiate (Revan novel)

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Here let me spell it out for you because it seems your cognitive functions are not developed enough to comprehend simple english.

I didn't say that Vitiate was on Nathema until KotFE, I said he was on various nexuses until KotFE. Which you should've realized when I started listing the nexuses he was on between Nathema and KotFE 😬

Right. Vitiate didn't even move his pathetic ass from a nexus between Nathema and KotFE.

It will be interesting for someone to make a case for Vitiate here, Beefy.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I find it more interesting for someone to make a case for Plagueis though.

People have been making cases for Plagueis, it's just that no one's bothered to address them and therefore jumpstart the actual debate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
People have been making cases for Plagueis, it's just that no one's bothered to address them and therefore jumpstart the actual debate.

I've yet to see a case for Plagueis. You can be disappointed with Vitiate's showing against Revan or you can be impressed with Revan's showing against Vitiate. A third option would be to accept that Vitiate was toying with Revan until he realized Revan was powerful enough where he had to get serious. When that happened, Revan had no answer. He doesn't need prep to defeat Plagueis. If he wins I will grant you it will be a difficult battle.

I wonder how Plagueis shouldn't be considered a "god-like avatar of the dark side" when he achieved unprecedented dominion over the Force, the ability to create life, resurrect the dead and render himself immortal, or as its described by the text: "his inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death." mmm

I'd say that's pretty godlike... on the other hand flowery hyperbole, especially of TOR's kind, is no basis for arguing a combative victory, lmao.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I've yet to see a case for Plagueis. You can be disappointed with Vitiate's showing against Revan or you can be impressed with Revan's showing against Vitiate. A third option would be to accept that Vitiate was toying with Revan until he realized Revan was powerful enough where he had to get serious. When that happened, Revan had no answer. He doesn't need prep to defeat Plagueis. If he wins I will grant you it will be a difficult battle.

No, you've yet to see a case you agree with, but reasons were provided. The only one who's bothered to actually address any of them is SWL and Zoltan addressed him in turn.

I see no evidence to suggest that Revan was being toyed with, since the Revan text very explicitly states that Vitiate stopped to gather and focus his energies preceding attacks multiple times throughout the fight.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I wonder how Plagueis shouldn't be considered a "god-like avatar of the dark side" when he achieved unprecedented dominion over the Force, the ability to create life, resurrect the dead and render himself immortal, or as its described by the text: "his inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death." mmm

I'd say that's pretty godlike... on the other hand flowery hyperbole, especially of TOR's kind, is no basis for arguing a combative victory, lmao.

What you just said was nothing but hyperbole. And then you had the testicular fortitude to claim that Vitiate is all hyperbole. Wow 😆

Also, remind me when he created life and made himself immortal? I believe Vitiate was the immortal one, able to make others immortal as well (Scourge), but lets ignore everything, lmao.

No, you've yet to see a case you agree with, but reasons were provided.

I see no evidence to suggest that Revan was being toyed with, since the Revan text very explicitly states that Vitiate stopped to gather and focus his energies preceding attacks multiple times throughout the fight.

MS... you should concede to Zoltan. I mean, that was a painful, painful misunderstanding...

Considering Scourge's visions of the Emperor's defeat, and considering the attack prompted him to create his Voices out of fear for his life according to the SWTORE, it's obvious Revan & co. where very much a threat.

MS... you should concede to Zoltan. I mean, that was a painful, painful misunderstanding...

Considering Scourge's visions of the Emperor's defeat, and considering the attack prompted him to create his Voices out of fear for his life according to the SWTORE, it's obvious Revan & co. where very much a threat.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I believe the same thing can be said about you?

No u?

Literally no one here other than SWL has provided an argument to defend Viti.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I don't have the text right in front of me but I remember Vitiate not getting serious until Revan put him on his ass, since Revan spent a lifetime preparing for Vitiate's mental barrage.

...That was literally the opening move of the fight. 😐

Plus, as Beni points out, Vitiate was hesitant to the point of absolute inaction when confronted by a wounded!Revan, Meetra, and Scourge. And Scourge's visions were such that there were plenty of futures wherein Vitiate died that day.

The fight between Revan and Vitiate was pretty close and apparently all it takes to thwart Vitiate potentially forever is a wounded!Revan and two characters who, combined, are lesser to Nyriss.

You outright read him wrong, lol. Just concede. It's not the end of the world.

To those among us complaining about the debate culture and who have an opinion on this, the gauntlet has been cast.

Let's see an actual debate.

Plus, as Beni points out, Vitiate was hesitant to the point of absolute inaction when confronted by a wounded!Revan, Meetra, and Scourge. And Scourge's visions were such that there were plenty of futures wherein Vitiate died that day.

After Revan succeeded, the book said something about Vitiate getting angry and the match ended fairly quick.

You outright read him wrong, lol. Just concede. It's not the end of the world.

The fight between Revan and Vitiate was pretty close and apparently all it takes to thwart Vitiate potentially forever is a wounded!Revan and two characters who, combined, are lesser to Nyriss.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But how do Scourge's visions have anything to do with what Vitiate was thinking? Full blown Vitiate was put on his ass once in his entire timeline and that's from Revan who spent years preparing for a mental defense. Let's assume that Plagueis doesn't magically have that defense, shall we?

Vitiate was actually put on his ass twice that day.
Scourge's visions are relevant because he foresaw plenty of futures where they killed Vitiate, which explains why Vitiate didn't make a move until Scourge killed Meetra and Revan was distracted.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
After Revan succeeded, the book said something about Vitiate getting angry and the match ended fairly quick.

Revan put Vitiate on his ass, Vitiate attacked with lightning, got put on his ass again, and then conjured a veritable storm of lightning which Revan tried to absorb barehanded.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
See above. What it took was Revan's mental preparation for years/decades (aside from the fact Revan was incredibly powerful) and Vitiate's underestimation. If you're going with "I hope Plagueis knows how to defend against Vitiate's mental domination and maybe he won't take me seriously", that's not a great starting point.

You should reacquaint yourself with the book, as bad as it is. After Vitiate subdues Revan at the end of their 1v1, he's roasting him with Force lightning and then Meetra and Scourge intervene. Vitiate hesitates when confronted with Surik alone, a wounded Revan rises to his feet, and the three prepare to face off with Vitiate. Then Scourge receives a flood of visions, in many of which Vitiate dies in the ensuing fight.

Hence a wounded!Revan and a duo who, together, are less than Nyriss are enough to plausibly end Vitiate's life. Obviously Revan is enormously powerful, but that's not an unprecedented array of firepower.

Vitiate was actually put on his ass twice that day.
Scourge's visions are relevant because he foresaw plenty of futures where they killed Vitiate, which explains why Vitiate didn't make a move until Scourge killed Meetra and Revan was distracted.

You should reacquaint yourself with the book, as bad as it is. After Vitiate subdues Revan at the end of their 1v1, he's roasting him with Force lightning and then Meetra and Scourge intervene. Vitiate hesitates when confronted with Surik alone, a wounded Revan rises to his feet, and the three prepare to face off with Vitiate. Then Scourge receives a flood of visions, in many of which Vitiate dies in the ensuing fight.

Hence a wounded!Revan and a duo who, together, are less than Nyriss are enough to plausibly end Vitiate's life. Obviously Revan is enormously powerful, but that's not an unprecedented array of firepower.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
What you just said was nothing but hyperbole. And then you had the testicular fortitude to claim that Vitiate is all hyperbole. Wow 😆

Also, remind me when he created life and made himself immortal? I believe Vitiate was the immortal one, able to make others immortal as well (Scourge), but lets ignore everything, lmao.

To address your relevant questions though, 1. He described as creating "pregnancies" in various creatures on Aborah "not achieved by normal means of conception, but rather through the Force", or rather much like Anakin. 2. By manipulating his midi-chlorians Plagueis was essentially capable of preventing himself from ageing:

Taken from Darth Plagueis

And so after Sidious had returned to Coruscant, he had devoted himself to internalizing that ability, by manipulating the midi-chlorians that animated him. For several months he made no progress, but ultimately he began to perceive a measured change. The scars that had grown over his wounds had abruptly begun to soften and fade, and he had begun to breathe more freely than he had in twenty years. He began to sense that not only were his damaged tissues healing, but his entire body was rejuvinating itself. Beneath the transpirator, areas of his skin were smooth and youthful, and he knew that eventually he would cease to age altogether.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But how do Scourge's visions have anything to do with what Vitiate was thinking? Full blown Vitiate was put on his ass once in his entire timeline and that's from Revan who spent years preparing for a mental defense. Let's assume that Plagueis doesn't magically have that defense, shall we?

After Revan succeeded, the book said something about Vitiate getting angry and the match ended fairly quick.

But sure, let's assume that the only way to defend against Vitiate's TP is if you know the magic words. 🙄

And the match "ended fairly quickly" because Vitiate gathered a "swirling storm of pure dark side" energy on an intensely powerful nexus, what proof is there that he will have the time or the resources to create something of similar magnitude here?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
When was the second time?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I just moved into a new house so I don't know where it is, but what is your point here? The way I remember it is Vitiate tries his mental domination, Revan blocks it and puts Vitiate on his ass. Vitiate then gets angry and roasts Revan. Then the rest of that happen.

Me
Revan put Vitiate on his ass (1), Vitiate attacked with lightning, got put on his ass again (2), and then conjured a veritable storm of lightning which Revan tried to absorb barehanded.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
The visions are irrelevant because they were Scourge's visions. That doesn't indicate that Vitiate considered Revan a threat until he was put on his ass.

Vitiate was put on his ass in the very first move of the fight. 😐

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Again context. They stood a chance [b]only because Revan prepared a defense for Vitiate's mental domination that took years/decades. [/B]

That's not encouraging. Contextually, that means if Vitiate of this era has to actually get his hands dirty, he could fall to relatively minor firepower. On a dark side nexus. 😬

I have no interested in humouring yet another of your basic comprehension missteps Beefy but yes, you should assume that my testicular fortitude is greater than your own. thumb up

To address your relevant questions though, 1. He described as creating "pregnancies" in various creatures on Aborah "not achieved by normal means of conception, but rather through the Force", or rather much like Anakin. 2. By manipulating his midi-chlorians Plagueis was essentially capable of preventing himself from ageing:

An ability he could evidently perform on others i.e. Venamis, so yes, he can make others immortal as well. Any more questions?

But sure, let's assume that the only way to defend against Vitiate's TP is if you know the magic words.

And the match "ended fairly quickly" because Vitiate gathered a "swirling storm of pure dark side" energy on an intensely powerful nexus, what proof is there that he will have the time or the resources to create something of similar magnitude here?

Revan put Vitiate on his ass (1), Vitiate attacked with lightning, got put on his ass again (2), and then conjured a veritable storm of lightning which Revan tried to absorb barehanded.

Vitiate was put on his ass in the very first move of the fight.

That's not encouraging. Contextually, that means if Vitiate of this era has to actually get his hands dirty, he could fall to relatively minor firepower. On a dark side nexus.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You humor me everytime you post an essay that's barely legible, then ***** and moan about how it's a fact. Truly amusing 👆

But he didn't prevent himself from aging did he?

But he didn't do that to Venamis, did he? So he was a mad scientist with force powers. He didn't make himself immortal nor Venamis. If your only response is "but he totally could", I don't need anymore laughter this morning.

How many more of the dots must I connect for you?

Yes, that's the only way. Wow, at least your stupidity is consistent 👆

Other than the fact that he's gathering his energies while [b]in the middle of a fight? LOL. Leave this to Gideon.[/b]

Here's the entire confrontation, from start to finish.

As Meetra and Scourge battled the Guard, Revan charged toward the Emperor.

His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.

Revan twisted in midair so that he was able to roll with the impact when he landed. He quickly sprang back to his feet and advanced again, moving more slowly this time.

The Emperor stood in the exact same position as before; it was as if he hadn’t even moved. Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will: to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. This time, however, Revan was ready.

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind, was sent flying backward.

He landed in a heap on the floor and Revan raced toward him. The Emperor rolled over, lifted himself up on one knee, and his hands flew forward as he hurtled a bolt of dark side lightning at his enemy.

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, though the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.
The Emperor unleashed three more bolts in quick succession. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, then deflected the third back in the direction of its source.

It struck the Emperor in the chest, sending him sliding several meters back on the floor. For the first time the Sith’s emotionless veneer cracked as he let out a primal hiss of hate. The sound sent shivers down Revan’s spine.

The Emperor rose to his feet, his robes smoking and singed where the lighting had struck him. His black eyes flashed red, and he raised both hands high above his head.

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done. The Jedi quickly calculated his options. Realizing he couldn’t close the gap between them quickly enough to stop the assault, he gathered his own energy and spread his hands before him, ready to catch and absorb the Emperor’s attack.

A dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

Revan’s body was engulfed in agony as the electricity coursed through his body. His skin began to boil and blister, the flesh of his face melting and sticking to the superheated metal of his mask as the Emperor poured more and more power into him.

Through the haze of indescribable pain, he saw T3-M4 rushing in to help him. The droid let loose with his flamethrower, bathing the Emperor in fire. At the last instant the Emperor cocooned himself in the Force to save himself from being incinerated, breaking his focus on Revan.

The Jedi collapsed to the ground, burned but still alive, the hilt of his extinguished lightsaber lying on the floor less than a meter beyond his grasp.

Almost too weak to move, Revan managed to raise his head just in time to see the Emperor turn on the brave little astromech. A tremor rippled through the air as the Emperor unleashed the full power of the Force against the defenseless droid.

T3 never stood a chance. The little droid exploded into a million pieces, internal circuits and external casing obliterated in a single instant.

“No!” Revan screamed from the ground as bits of his friend rained down on him in the form of unrecognizable shrapnel.

He tried to rise, but his injured body refused to respond. Instinctively, he called on the Force to give him strength and heal his wounds.

The Emperor was approaching him with calm, purposeful steps. Once he reached Revan’s side he calmly bent down and picked up the Jedi’s fallen weapon, igniting the blade.

The healing properties of the Force were powerful, but Revan’s wounds were severe and he needed more time to restore his strength. Helpless, he could only stare up at the Emperor as he raised the lightsaber to deliver the killing blow.

Even as she called to Scourge to help, Meetra was already sprinting toward the far end of the throne room. Scourge hesitated before joining her, taking a moment to survey the situation, memories of his vision of their failure still fresh in his mind.

What he saw was not good. Revan was being electrocuted, his body spasming uncontrollably as the Emperor blasted him with dark purple lightning.

Revan’s astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi’s lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds. Meetra was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Emperor from eviscerating the prone Jedi at his feet.

In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber with a wild sidearm throw, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade, knocking it from the Emperor’s grasp and sending it skittering across the floor.

Suddenly empty-handed, the Emperor took a quick step back. His attention had been focused solely on Revan; Meetra’s trick had caught him by surprise. Scourge realized that if she had aimed at the Emperor instead of the blade, she could have ended his life even as he ended Revan’s. But her instincts to save her friend overrode her desire to kill her enemy, and Scourge could only lament the lost opportunity.

Meetra was still rushing forward, using the Force to return her lightsaber to her waiting hand.

Sensing hesitation and uncertainty in the Emperor as he tried to evaluate the strength and weaknesses of his new foe, Scourge rushed forward to join Meetra and Revan.

Meetra had placed herself between the Emperor and Revan, valiantly protecting her wounded friend. As Scourge reached them, Revan managed to stand up again. He reached out with an open palm and his lightsaber sprang from the floor and into his waiting grasp.

The three of them stood side by side, two Jedi and a Sith Lord against the Emperor.

“I expected better from you, Lord Scourge,” the Emperor said.

Scourge wondered if he was stalling for time so his Guard could break through the sealed door. There wasn’t much chance of that, however; by the time they broke into the throne room the battle would already be decided, one way or the other.

“He has seen the depths of your evil,” Revan declared. “He stands with us now.”

“Then he will die with you, as well.”

“You can’t defeat all three of us,” Revan said. “United, we are stronger than even you.”

“That remains to be seen,” the Emperor replied.

For Scourge, the universe suddenly seemed frozen in place, as if time itself had stopped. He realized he was at a crux in history; fate and destiny would be forever altered in the next few moments.

The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form.

He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion.

The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. Revan and Meetra stepped forward, ready to initiate the final confrontation. Scourge knew he had to act now; he had to make his choice.

In a sudden moment of clarity he saw the Emperor lying defeated at the feet of a powerful Jedi … but that Jedi was neither Revan nor Meetra. And the Sith Lord knew what he had to do.

Instead of advancing with his two companions, Scourge stepped to the side so that he was standing directly behind Meetra. There was a flicker in his consciousness as the universe snapped back to full speed, and he slid the blade of his lightsaber between her shoulders.

Meetra gasped and toppled forward, dead before she hit the floor. Revan’s head snapped to the side, shock and horror emanating from him even though his mask hid his expression. The distraction gave the Emperor the opportunity he needed, and he unleashed another blast of lightning into the Jedi’s chest.