Great Battles Vol 1: Darth Plagueis vs. Vitiate (Revan novel)

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So? Still 99.9% of his feats are amped.

For example, we have documented evidence of Darths Bane and Zannah drawing from the power of a nexus environment to perform certain actions and/or bolster their effectiveness in combat situations.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Pretty cool. Vitiate with hundreds of years of rituals could affect DK's weather. Plagueis caused the coldest winter on Naboo just by being.

Vitiate corrupted the environment of Dromund Kaas long ago. And the sheer scale and potency of his accomplishment dwarfs that of Darth Plagueis.

As for the winter in Naboo, there is no solid evidence of Darth Plagueis causing it.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Zannah did the same with Jedi as a child, who is canonically eclipsed by Plagueis.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Actually yes. Since Vitiate knew of the Dark Council's plan he could prepare any ritual or gather power with the assistance of the nexus.

1. Does anyone have a substantive case for dismissing the publisher's blurb beyond your completely made up rule that publishers don't have artistic license (in blatant contradiction to the actual law)?

2. Who can present a case for Vitiate that accounts for the confounding impact of a powerful dark side nexus?

@Syndicate: if you think his blue flash is too weak to take out Meetra and Scourge, or the HoT, or any of the other strike teams he fails to employ it against, why should we think it would be useful against Plagueis?

Uh-huh, your poor reading skills are also not my problem.

Yes that's... exactly what he did. It is stated that "eventually he would cease to age altogether" and almost a decade later Sidious observes that his mastered the "equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death."

He brought Venamis back to life, and then internalised that ability, making himself ageless.

A baseless assertion of which you have no proof.

Against an opponent far inferior to Plagueis, quite. What's stopping Plagueis from interrupting him?

A. Revan was a far inferior opponent than Plagueis
B. Plagueis has the means of interrupting him.

Since you haven't done either (again, unsurprisingly), we'll ignore that part of your argument, ok? 👆

sending him sliding several meters back on the floor

So we've established the only way we've seen Vitiate actually get put on his ass involves years/decades of mental preparing in which the force user channels equal parts light/dark (which Plagueis doesn't possess)? Sounds fair.

Go back and reread it. Vitiate landed in a heap, rose to one knee, got hit again and was sent sliding back several meters on the floor. The text then says he rose to his feet. He didn't slide back on his feet if he wasn't on his feet to begin with.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
My "poor" reading comprehension skills have nothing to do with your poorly constructed arguments, but I digress.

He didn't actually stop the aging process. 10 years later he was older and looked older. You know, the opposite of immortal?

But he didn't make himself ageless, lol. You don't need to connect any dots for me since you're unable to do so sufficiently for yourself.

Regardless, you're nitpicking, whether or not you believe Plagueis truly achieved immortality or not the fact remains that such was his dominion over the dark side and the natural order of things, that the Force itself actively rebuked his efforts to be godlike. I do not recall the conception of a prophesied being to strike down Vitiate, so it would appear that in an effort to become a supreme being Plagueis was doing a better job of it.

And unsurprisingly, the sarcasm goes over your head.

Baseless assumptions. You'd have to prove that:

A. Revan was a far inferior opponent than Plagueis
B. Plagueis has the means of interrupting him.

Since you haven't done either (again, unsurprisingly), we'll ignore that part of your argument, ok? 👆

And I imagine with his lightsaber, or maybe a Force push, yeah. The fact that Plagueis has been described at moving at a respectable fraction of the speed of light would suggest he can interrupted Vitiate rather quickly.

Also to highlight some extracts from Temp's post:

His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.

[...]

There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward.

[...]

The Emperor rose to his feet, his robes smoking and singed where the lighting had struck him. His black eyes flashed red, and he raised both hands high above his head.

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done.

This again being within the contexts of Vitiate being able to focus and channel the energies of an intensely powerful nexus:

[...] the planet is bristling with the energy of the dark side [...]

--SWTOR.com: Holonet

The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.

--The Old Republic: Revan

A decade earlier, when Scourge had first arrived on Dromund Kaas as a young apprentice, he had vowed to one day set foot inside the citadel's exclusive halls. Yet in all his years of training at the Sith Academy on Kaas City’s borders, he had never been granted the privilege. He had been one of the top students, marked by his superiors for his strength in the Force and his fanatic devotion to the ways of the Sith. But acolytes were not permitted inside the citadel; its secrets were reserved for those in direct service to the Emperor and the Dark Council.

The dark side power emanating from within the building was undeniable; he had felt the raw, crackling energy every day during his years as an acolyte. He had drawn on it, focusing his mind and spirit to channel the power through his own body to sustain him during the brutal training sessions.

--The Old Republic: Revan

Originally posted by SunRazer
On revision, it's the island that's a "transcendent vortex of dark energy unlike anything [Palpatine] had ever experienced".

Which is still fine, thanks to this little gem:

Ergo, this is referring to specific spots of the DK/whatever else's nexus, not the planet as a whole. So something like the Dark Temple could well be included here. The comparison stands.

Can you quote me a source where Palpatine went to Kaas?

The Korriban nexus was drastically inferior to Kaas' during the time of Ben Skywalker.

And what's with you and these stretched out comparisons?

First with the Exile and Canderous, then when Vitiate and the Star Forge. Now with this... 😬

15 meters is long enough to keep it a Force fight tbh, but Idk if the info they have on each other would serve the king of prep or Plageuis in his use of melee combat.

Both sides have a legit chance, I'll side Vitiate in The Force and either way in All Out till I see more of the discussion.

.

There, Elm, I posted in the thread. 🙂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Said advantage is claimed, not officially affirmed.

For example, we have documented evidence of Darths Bane and Zannah drawing from the power of a nexus environment to perform certain actions and/or bolster their effectiveness in combat situations.

Is this an attempt to say Vitiate wasn't amped on the nexuses? Because it's pretty poor at that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hundreds of years? You are wrong.

Vitiate corrupted the environment of Dromund Kaas long ago. And the sheer scale and potency of his accomplishment dwarfs that of Darth Plagueis.

Plagueis wasn't even trying lol, while on the other hand Vitiate directly caused the storms with his rituals. That's like saying Starkiller's all out TK is better than Yoda's fart.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As for the winter in Naboo, there is no solid evidence of Darth Plagueis causing it.

Right. So the coldest winter in Naboo history and Plagueis's autumn arrival just happened to be at the exact same time. Totally accident, you convinced me 👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I suppose that a powerful Sith Lord is a much superior foe than two random Jedi.

I suppose two random Jedi are a superior foe to one random Sith. But considering whom I talking to let's presume they aren't. Even then Plagueis is vastly more powerful, with vastly bigger potential than Zannah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And the members of the Dark Council reached his position without any preparation?

As if 12 random Sith can prep as well as Vitiate. You insult your fav. Nevermind the fact that Vitiate stuck first so it's irrelevant if they preped or no.

Should be noted that Vitiate did not create the dark side nexus on Dromund Kaas, it was already strong in the Force when they arrived, he merely intensified it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Should be noted that Vitiate did not create the dark side nexus on Dromund Kaas, it was already strong in the Force when they arrived, he merely intensified it.

Before I get to your novel, you can't claim he intensified the nexus and then claim that "well he did this because he was on a nexus". You don't get your cake and eat it to. And by you I mean in the general sense, before you start developing a complex.

Edit: I'd like clarification if he did indeed create dark side nexus with his experiments, because he definitely changed the weather while doing so.

Care to explain why? Your reasoning is incomplete.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Care to explain why? Your reasoning is incomplete.

Which part? If you're going to say that character X intensified an already force infusion planet, then you can't take the same character and say his accomplishments are tainted because he was on said nexus.

Only if the logic went that Vitiate's mere presence on the nexus caused it to intensify, but he achieved it through various Sith rituals. I see no reason why he can't reap what he has sown (on top of the dark side energies already present.)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Only if the logic went that Vitiate's mere presence on the nexus caused it to intensify, but he achieved it through various Sith rituals. I see no reason why he can't reap what he has sown (on top of the dark side energies already present.)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. Does anyone have a substantive case for dismissing the publisher's blurb beyond your completely made up rule that publishers don't have artistic license (in blatant contradiction to the actual law)?

2. Who can present a case for Vitiate that accounts for the confounding impact of a powerful dark side nexus?

@Syndicate: if you think his blue flash is too weak to take out Meetra and Scourge, or the HoT, or any of the other strike teams he fails to employ it against, why should we think it would be useful against Plagueis?

The quote not working for you either?

I'm simply saying it's a demonstration of his overall power rather then an ability he could effectively use against Plagueis. As I said I find it more likely he couldn't gather his energies to carry out such an attack with Revan present.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Also to highlight some extracts from Temp's post:The majority of Vitiate's attacks are performed by him focusing and gathering considerable amounts of power, the only attack that wasn't (where Vitiate fired lighting bolts at him in "quick succession"😉 capably handled by Revan. Evidently he was taking his opponent seriously.

This again being within the contexts of Vitiate being able to focus and channel the energies of an intensely powerful nexus😖o there is no guarantee he will be able to unleash powers of this magnitude against Plagueis.

👆

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The quote not working for you either?

I'm simply saying it's a demonstration of his overall power rather then an ability he could effectively use against Plagueis. As I said I find it more likely he couldn't gather his energies to carry out such an attack with Revan present.

Nah, I was on my phone. As for demonstrating his overall power, I don't buy it; why aren't his other attacks as powerful then? He has to charge up his lightning storm for several seconds to overpower Tol Braga's strike team, for instance.