Ragnos: the ancient Sith's MVP?

Well, it's claimed that the knowledge died with Kun, not Nadd, in JATM. So Kun probably did have access to that knowledge. As for how quickly he studied it, no idea.

The Fact File quote is this:

The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Baas.

-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #1

The TCSWE quote is this one (retconned to be "once the most powerful", so that Palpatine could remain supreme):

Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he [Exar Kun] was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Here's a second source that proclaims Kun the most powerful. Take it as you will, though.

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On topic, Ragnos was the most powerful up to his time according to a publisher's summary of questionable canonicity. Again, take it as you will.

Marka Ragnos ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. He was the Dark Lord of the Sith — the most powerful of the most powerful. But now he is dead.

The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Baas.

-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #1

Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he [Exar Kun] was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ant and I were discussing this quote because he really was the only dark lord of the past 1,000 years.

Well, with the retcon that just puts him into the "powerful" category and not necessarily above Nadd. The first quote may be the harder one to argue.

Nadd was only 400+ years before Kun. And he's a DLotS as well. How does that affect the Fact File quote anyway? Nadd was on the same page that Kun was proclaimed to be the most powerful.

I feel as though the TCSWE quote refers to all Dark Lords up to Kun's time, since it's plural. It doesn't make sense for it to be referring to, you know, himself.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nadd was only 400+ years before Kun. And he's a DLotS as well. How does that affect the Fact File quote anyway? Nadd was on the same page that Kun was proclaimed to be the most powerful.

I feel as though the TCSWE quote refers to all Dark Lords up to Kun's time, since it's plural. It doesn't make sense for it to be referring to, you know, himself.

Was Nadd a DLOTS though? I remember a contradiction of sources that state he wasn't.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Was Nadd a DLOTS though? I remember a contradiction of sources that state he wasn't.

Well, the Fact File quote refers to all Sith Lords, not just Dark Lords.

Are you referring to this quote, btw?

But without a kingdom, Freedon Nadd knew that he could never truly be the new Dark Lord of the Sith.

-- The Dark Side Sourcebook

If so, then Nadd did claim a kingdom, so he'd satisfy the quote above, which kind of suggests that he was already a Dark Lord but needed to "validate" that by getting a kingdom, which, of course, he did.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, the Fact File quote refers to all Sith Lords, not just Dark Lords.

Are you referring to this quote, btw?

If so, then Nadd did claim a kingdom, so he'd satisfy the quote above, which kind of suggests that he was already a Dark Lord but needed to "validate" that by getting a kingdom, which, of course, he did.

The contradicting sources also claim that Nadd killed Sadow, or that since there could only be one DLOTS, Nadd left Yavin and went to Onderon. I just don't think Nadd was canonically a DLOTS.

I just found this quote from JATM:

The remains of Freedon Nadd, Dark Lord of the Sith and last king of Onderon, were relocated to Dxun shortly after his death to prevent his dark essence from being used by others seeking to gain power through the dark side of the Force.

-- Jedi Academy Training Manual

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
The contradicting sources also claim that Nadd killed Sadow, or that since there could only be one DLOTS, Nadd left Yavin and went to Onderon. I just don't think Nadd was canonically a DLOTS.

Nadd did kill Sadow.

But if nadd killed sadow, why did his spirit magically turn up a few centuries later? You can see my confusion since Nadd was trained by sadow's spirit, not his physical body.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But if nadd killed sadow, why did his spirit magically turn up a few centuries later?

Because he killed Sadow physically, and Sadow's spirit came back?

It's always been a mess, but TOR's disregard for continuity made things worse by bringing in Sadow's spirit again for no reason. They ended up just saying that Nadd destroyed Sadow in a codex entry, to avoid confusion, I suppose.

And no, later sources like RoT have Sadow surviving the six centuries physically, and TOR has Sadow placing his body in Stasis until Nadd came along. So Nadd killed him physically, and then Sadow's spirit gets wrecked later.

No no, i know sadow placed himself in stasis but all the sources I remember state that it was his spirit training Nadd, unless I'm wrong. Again, the same sources said Nadd didn't kill Sadow.

Nah, every source either says Nadd destroyed Sadow or just leaves it ambiguous. Not that he actually refused to destroy Sadow. But we should be taking the newest sources, which do state that Nadd destroyed Sadow.

Regardless, Nadd's a Dark Lord, per my quote above. Kun's more powerful than him 👆

Setting Kun aside, what about Ragnos? Is he still supreme with respect to Force power from Sadow on back?

I recall a quote that flat out says his reign would have been much shorter had he not set his enemies against each other.

Well, his enemies could've dogpiled him. His supremacy doesn't necessarily prohibit that from happening.

Now that I think about it, this should apply to Pall and his Shadow Hands fighting amongst each other. Perhaps Pall was dogpiled.

Ok so we've established kun has quotes that aren't really backed up by evidence. Not much more to argue.

Yea, I've been checking swtor and they've retconned a lot of things. Oh well, my points still stand. The argument for Nadd is convincing in my opinion but the quotes, if interpreted a certain way, put me on the losing end.

Originally posted by SunRazer

Now that I think about it, this should apply to Pall and his Shadow Hands fighting amongst each other. Perhaps Pall was dogpiled.

Ragnos probably still has the best feat out of all of them (Kun included):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e9oTHXBgcfk#t=8m42s

"It seems they lost their powers when the scepter was destroyed."

So basically, simply by existing in the galaxy, the specter of Ragnos could grant hundreds of people (possibly non-Force sensitives) abilities like Force Lightning and Force Drain. The scepter would obviously just be a fraction of the power a living Marka Ragnos would wield.

Interesting. Depends how much of Ragnos power, the Scepter wielded, I could see Ragnos being even more impressive, tbh.