Originally posted by Beniboybling
No he's exhausted, and was panting the moment Sidious broke the blade lock, before he started begging from his life. That's why Sidious won, because he lacked the energy to continue fighting. That much should be frikken obvious tbh.
There goes Maul's chances of outlasting Dooku, then.
And of course it matters, Maul is going to have to expend far more energy keeping up with Palpatine's strength and speed that anyone else,
Well, yeah. Too bad Maul isn't actually keeping up with a fully unleashed Sidious, though. And I'm pretty sure Maul is giving it his all in every one of his duels against Kenobi, the man he hates the most in the galaxy, yet he was never exhausted. It was fear that was fear that was the cause of his panting, not exhaustion.
But regardless of which you believe - whether he was exhausted or not - Maul still gets the short end of the stick. If he was exhausted, he just proved his inability to wage battles longer than five minutes, which prevents him from outlasting - and beating - Dooku. If he wasn't exhausted, he just proved his inability to endure the pain of actual Sith lightning, which renders him helpless against Dooku.
even Savage was left seriously fatigued after a brief bout with him.
Please tell me where you see exhaustion on Savage's face.
And Maul was ragdolled on top of this.
Relevant how? Unless you're implying being smashed a couple of times on a wall and the floor actually furthered Maul's exhaustion to the point where it affected his ability to tank Force lightning. Dooku stomps harder each minute.
Uh-huh, I'm looking under that hood friend and it's still not Dooku.
You're missing the point (again). It's obvious Sidious' lightning is more powerful than Dooku, but this isn't about how powerful the lightning is, it is about how painful it is.
With Sidious deliberately saying "I'm not going to kill you.", it's only logical the lightning he's using isn't lethal. Unless you manage to pull a quote which declares Sidious the most painful Sith Lord in history, there's no reason to assume Sidious' non-lethal lightning is more painful than Dooku's.
All forms of lightning are instantaneous, Christ. That doesn't mean Dooku wasn't gathering his power before hand.
Dooku couldn't have possibly been gathering his power while unconcsious.
In fact, Vos describes it as more powerful lightning than anything he's ever seen, despite the Count turning his lightning powers on Vos in their duel.
That's a bonus for Dooku, then.
So no, evidently it is nothing something he can pull off in a combat situation, else he would have.
Remember what I said about not factoring in the plot?
As for Ventress' injuries, yes she had suffered some serious ones after being in a ship crash and having a building collapsed on her.
Mind posting the quotes?
But regardless, although Dooku wasn't at his most powerful, either, so it balances out.
More destructive? He killed a bunch of scrubs, hardly a high-end showing from the Count.
What I meant is that as opposed to Dooku usually directly aiming for his targets, and based on the blue background, the lightning was everywhere. That's what a Force Lightning Storm is.
I find the fact he's stronger and more durable than Savage to be more telling tbh. If Savage can tank five successive bursts of Dooku's lightning and still possess the power to ragdoll him and Ventress at once, a much more powerful Maul can take a few hits.
Since when is Maul's pain threshold higher than Savage's? You mentioned something about Maul remaining conscious in space and Savage didn't. But that's not a showing of pain tolerance.
And overlooking the fact that Kenobi's pain resistance does not compare to Maul's in the slightest,
I'd say enduring months of torture while deprived of food, drink, and sleep and having your Force connection hampered, while having maggots feasting on your innards, and still continuing to fight, compares quite admirably to anything Maul has been through.
Note: I'm not certain of the validity of the feat, since I heard it in an EvanNova video. Anyone got the scans/quotes to prove/disprove this?
it was not pain that KO'ed Kenobi but trauma, a level of which Dooku is not capable of inflicting on a considerably more powerful opponent.
I'm not an expert on these types of injuries, but I've never heard of someone getting knocked out in the spine. A blow to the head would be different, but a blow to the spine is going to only cause paralysis, and the one case I do know of was with Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double, who kept commenting specifically about the pain. Kenobi wasn't even paralyzed, so the logical conclusion is that he was knocked out by pain. Maul will be as well.
More to the point Dooku's TK/Force lighting combo also failed to put down Savage:In fact, even Dooku and Ventress using "all the power" they possessed was only enough to put an enraged Savage down for a few seconds.
Good for Savage, then.
In neither of those examples is Dooku launching lightning omni-directionally, merely at multiple targets.
That's the point. Wherever Maul dodges, there's already another blast waiting for him. And I've not seen proof that Maul can dodge Force lightning in the first place.
And of course the more Dooku spreads his lightning, the weaker it would become. Case in point, none of those he struck in that second example were KO'ed.
Which is irrelevant when even the weakest of the weakest of lightning still put Maul on his knees. Dooku can use that momentary vulnerability to fire more potent charges.
I'm also failing to see how that's a Force maelstrom, you'll have to elaborate.
Sidious' description of Force Maelstrom:
"Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates an invulnerable energy sphere to block incoming attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning."
The text mentions a barrier and lightning, a Force Maelstrom.
No he's forcing Dooku to uselessly expend his resources, while he himself does something called fight back. But perhaps you'd forgotten that this fight goes both ways.
As if Dooku lacks resources to the point where a few missed blasts would be exhausting him. And still waiting for proof Maul can dodge lightning.
I provided an example above, the ability to withstand a vaporising explosion is ample proof he can shield against Dooku's lightning, which in fact has never vaporised anyone. But on the topic of absent showings, still not seeing any solid endurance feats from Dooku.
I'll leave disproving that feat to Ziggy. Anyway, even if he can shield himself from lightning, that - as you yourself have admitted - isn't the case for TK, where Maul has shown absolutely nothing resembling notable defense. And why should I start delivering endurance feats when Maul isn't going to land a single blow on Dooku?
It demonstrates he's hardly as effective as you presume against Force users that rival his power, which Maul happens to be.
What exactly are you using to measure this power? I've already shown scans of a Dooku drained to the brink of death outclassing Maul in raw power. A full-powered Dooku will discard Maul like a wet cloth.
Though this is rather ironic as you continue to use Sidious as proof of Dooku's capabilities.
Correction: I used Sidious as proof of Maul's incapabilities, and the second time just as a visual representation of what Dooku will do to Maul.
I wasn't suggesting unarmed combat, but Maul is still capable of inflicting blunt force trauma through the kind of telekinetic attacks that have blown away armies. And one-shotted Kenobi, collapsing a cave in the process:
Not impressed. Why? Well, here's another one of Maul's feats, which appeared to be done with quite a bit more strain that the cave one:
Another Jedi, K'Kruhk has accomplished something similar:
Quinlan Vos has dominated K'Kruhk telekintically:
And Dooku in turn ragdolls Vos:
So I'm not seeing how Maul's Force Pushes are doing absolutely anything to the Count unless the latter is caught off-guard. Dooku on the other hand will snap Maul's neck with a gesture.
Oh, and Dooku can also dodge Maul's Pushes:
Or alternatively by injuring him with debris. Dooku's ability to deflect his own lightning and some sand notwithstanding.
Which Dooku could simply dodge, or take into his own Force Grip and hurl back at Maul, or shoot a bolt of lightning before Maul has a chance to do anything.
