First Order vs The United Federation of Planets

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Would you like to share your knowledge then? Because none of the bias, usually baseless bs that Quanchi posts has suaded me in any way to think that the Enterprise could even handle a troop transport, let alone an ISD. This whole time I've been talking in terms of pure naval warfare, ground combat isn't even a conversation worth having since it's so far in SW's favor.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Neither Snoke or Kylo haven't done anything as far as tactics go, they haven't led troops nor have they commanded in space battles.

Veers and Piett have done that, Vader has also.

Not really, the FO troops did what exactly? Raid a run down village and a cantina and capture Han, Chewie and Finn right?...Before getting rescued.

Ok...let's compare.

Now the GE Storms, overran a Rebel defended force aboard the Tantive IV, they crushed an entire Rebel base and capture a Rebel Strike Force consisting of Han Solo, Chewie, Leia and a group of SpecForce. Before being saved.

The FO Troops clearly aren't superior as of 1 movie, can they be superior? Sure, but that remains to be seen.

Snoke is their leader so he pulls the strings. When did Palpatine lead them into battle ? He gave the orders Vader followed. Same thing goes for Kylo.

Yes, they did so. We also see Finn is capable of handling himself while he was beaten by a stormtrooper.

GE storms were also crushed by ewoks and a few rebels minus Luke. Yes, they have been portrayed as more capable based off their combat feats, beating Finn, Finn grazing an injured Kylo, etc.

Guess what Kylo killed Han. Did anyone in the empire do so ?? **** no !!

Better leadership my ass lol. Palpatine is presumably>Snoke and Vader is >>>>>>Kylo as of now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo has led troops into battle.

Snoke is their leader so he pulls the strings. When did Palpatine lead them into battle ? He gave the orders Vader followed. Same thing goes for Kylo.

Yes, they did so. We also see Finn is capable of handling himself while he was beaten by a stormtrooper.

GE storms were also crushed by ewoks and a few rebels minus Luke. Yes, they have been portrayed as more capable based off their combat feats, beating Finn, Finn grazing an injured Kylo, etc.

Guess what Kylo killed Han. Did anyone in the empire do so ?? **** no !!

I mean actually lead them in combat, Kylo just arrived after the combat was done or went after Rey, we never really see him fighting alongside his men.

Veers did that, Vader did that with his TIE piloting too.

I didn't bring up Palpatine, bringing up Snoke and Palps is worthless here, they didn't show anything in leading troops in combat nor fighting on battlefields.

In melee combat, I already said the FO Troops shown better melee combat, so not sure why you brought it up. I'm talking about outside of melee, which is what I noted in my first post.

Kylo killing Han is irrelevant, that wasn't in combat and we're talking about the Troopers here.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Better leadership my ass lol. Palpatine is presumably>Snoke and Vader is >>>>>>Kylo as of now.

Vader is horse shit. He couldn't even be genuine about his own feelings. Kylo resisted the light Vader fell back in head first.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I mean actually lead them in combat, Kylo just arrived after the combat was done or went after Rey, we never really see him fighting alongside his men.

Veers did that, Vader did that with his TIE piloting too.

I didn't bring up Palpatine, bringing up Snoke and Palps is worthless here, they didn't show anything in leading troops in combat nor fighting on battlefields.

In melee combat, I already said the FO Troops shown better melee combat, so not sure why you brought it up. I'm talking about outside of melee, which is what I noted in my first post.

Kylo killing Han is irrelevant, that wasn't in combat and we're talking about the Troopers here.

So the guys giving the orders to their generals isn't important. Oh dear lord what am I to do with someone as naive as yourself who believes the overall leaders do no matter.

One part of the argument you already agree why not go a little further.

No, it is relevant since he did what Vader could not remain on the dark side.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Says the guy who hasn't used a shred of evidence to back his baseless claims.

ISD's aren't very maneuverable. You claim they are too powerful for the Trek ships to handle. What is this based off ?

Who needs ground combat when they can take planets out or decimate ground troops with their ships from the air.

I've cited and referenced all of my arguments, and you have never done anything remotely close to backing up your claims in a single thread.

I don't disagree that it has terrible maneuverability; but it isn't a problem when Trek ships lack the firepower to weaken the shields. The DS9 technical manual says that a photon torpedo has a maximum theoretical output of 62 megatons. If you do the math, the destructive output of a photon torpedo by TNG is ~500 megatons, which is still pretty minimal compared to Star Wars weaponry, given that the destructive output of a turbolaser on an Acclimator as of the Clone Wars has a destructive output of 2.4 million megatons per shot. You can ignorantly say that "numbers don't say everything" all you want, but when the numbers are off by literally two ****ing million, there's no possible way you can dismiss it and still consider yourself open-minded. If you can provide evidence to support your argument, I'd love to see it. You still have yet to do anything of the sort.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are out of your ever loving mind if you don't agree Snoke is better than Palpatine. The dumbass handed the empire on a platter to the rebels due to his arrogance. He also completely trusted Vader while he was in the process of killing Luke. Naive and moronic.

Vader is horse shit. He couldn't even be genuine about his own feelings. Kylo resisted the light Vader fell back in head first.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
I've cited and referenced all of my arguments, and you have never done anything remotely close to backing up your claims in a single thread.

I don't disagree that it has terrible maneuverability; but it isn't a problem when Trek ships lack the firepower to weaken the shields. The DS9 technical manual says that a photon torpedo has a maximum theoretical output of 62 megatons. If you do the math, the destructive output of a photon torpedo by TNG is ~500 megatons, which is still pretty minimal compared to Star Wars weaponry, given that the destructive output of a turbolaser on an Acclimator as of the Clone Wars has a destructive output of 2.4 million megatons per shot. You can ignorantly say that "numbers don't say everything" all you want, but when the numbers are off by literally two ****ing million, there's no possible way you can dismiss it and still consider yourself open-minded. If you can provide evidence to support your argument, I'd love to see it. You still have yet to do anything of the sort.

So you want to ignore the portrayals and go off some random numbers written down somewhere. It's rather pathetic. What does his have to do with the Kelvin timeline ? We already know their ships are superior to the prime timeline.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is a bold faced lie. I've posted clips to support my claims while you have done no such thing.

So you want to ignore the portrayals and go off some random numbers written down somewhere. It's rather pathetic. What does his have to do with the Kelvin timeline ? We already know their ships are superior to the prime timeline.

The clips being barely on-topic with this thread. There's no reliable data we can pull from the clips you shared, and everything we can is blatant bias.

I'm ignoring them because, as I've said, it's biased, taking the worst of Star Wars and the best of Star Trek. The numbers I've provided are of inferior ships to what are actually being discussed in this thread. If you or Darthbane would like to provide some technical data on the Kelvin ships, please do so, but this is all we have for now. Even if the destructive output of a photon torpedo is five times greater in the Kelvin timeline than in DS9, it's still miniscule compared to that of an Acclimator from the Clone Wars, let alone an ISD.

Originally posted by darthbane77
There is NOTHING to suggest that Snoke is > Palpatine, that's idiotic bias due to your hatred of the OT; nothing more. Lol @ Vader being horseshit, because Vader's the one that got his ass handed to him by a completely untrained Rey and an ex-stormtrooper. "Kylo was wounded and that's why he lost", sure he was; but the difference is that wounded Vader is still>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rey and Finn. Your bias is obvious and nobody takes you seriously.

For one we don't know if she's untrained. Secondly, his training isn't complete. Thirdly, Kylo was injured prior to either of those fights.

Let's compare Kylo to Vader after Kylo's training is complete.

🙂

If you knew anything about Star Wars then you'd know that the Force wanted the Rebellion to win, hence why the Ewoks beat the Empire.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
The clips being barely on-topic with this thread. There's no reliable data we can pull from the clips you shared, and everything we can is blatant bias.

I'm ignoring them because, as I've said, it's biased, taking the worst of Star Wars and the best of Star Trek. The numbers I've provided are of inferior ships to what are actually being discussed in this thread. If you or Darthbane would like to provide some technical data on the Kelvin ships, please do so, but this is all we have for now. Even if the destructive output of a photon torpedo is five times greater in the Kelvin timeline than in DS9, it's still miniscule compared to that of an Acclimator from the Clone Wars, let alone an ISD.

Do you honestly believe either film director had a manual in front of them for these scenes ? I mean honestly do you really believe this bullshit ? Trek weapons destroy planets but then again so do Wars weapons therefore you'd assume wars weapons are greater, right ? You aren't looking at this with the same lens. You honestly say screw the actual film showings and the obvious i.e. Laser fire hitting humans from the Star Wars ships while instead proclaiming this tech manual says it's more powerful than the sun. Dear lord wipe the bias off your face.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
If you knew anything about Star Wars then you'd know that the Force wanted the Rebellion to win, hence why the Ewoks beat the Empire.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So the clips of both films isn't reliable data ? But a manual for something not Kelvin related is more reliable ? Even you can't believe this.

Do you honestly believe either film director had a manual in front of them for these scenes ? I mean honestly do you really believe this bullshit ? Trek weapons destroy planets but then again so do Wars weapons therefore you'd assume wars weapons are greater, right ? You aren't looking at this with the same lens. You honestly say screw the actual film showings and the obvious i.e. Laser fire hitting humans from the Star Wars ships while instead proclaiming this tech manual says it's more powerful than the sun. Dear lord wipe the bias off your face.

Again, what material is there that is reliable is completely bias, and you know it, hence why you shared it. Don't try to deny it, all you use is move shit, even though we can barely use them as reference since we don't know how phasers will affect SW shields, and how turbolasers will affect ST shields, but with the information provided from far more in-depth material, we can make EDUCATED statements, rather than looking at something and assuming something that is likely inaccurate. I'm still waiting for something as reliable as what I've provided involving the Kelvin ships, not just assumptions based on comparing two unlike things. You can call me bias all you want, but it won't change the fact that I have the superior argument.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So the force is the reason this happened and everything the ewoks did didn't matter since the force wanted this to occur. You're the same guy who says religion is horseshit and use the same laughable reasoning to justify Wars embarrassing showings. You're as bad as a religious fanatic.

Again, if you understood SW, you would understand. I'm nothing like the religious fanatics, I'm merely stating a fact.

Insult me all you like, It doesn't change that I'm providing a better argument.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
If you knew anything about Star Wars then you'd know that the Force wanted the Rebellion to win, hence why the Ewoks beat the Empire.

Technically, Chewie did by highjacking the AT-ST, the whole battle turned around in the Rebel's favor(the script, the novel and the comic note this). Before that, it was clear in favor of the Empire.

This will go on for over 100 pages.

Originally posted by playa1258
This will go on for over 100 pages.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Again, what material is there that is reliable is completely bias, and you know it, hence why you shared it. Don't try to deny it, all you use is move shit, even though we can barely use them as reference since we don't know how phasers will affect SW shields, and how turbolasers will affect ST shields, but with the information provided from far more in-depth material, we can make EDUCATED statements, rather than looking at something and assuming something that is likely inaccurate. I'm still waiting for something as reliable as what I've provided involving the Kelvin ships, not just assumptions based on comparing two unlike things. You can call me bias all you want, but it won't change the fact that I have the superior argument.

Again, if you understood SW, you would understand. I'm nothing like the religious fanatics, I'm merely stating a fact.

You believing you have the superior argument is the bitter irony here. With a straight face you're saying ignore the films and hey look at this tech guide which has nothing to do with the Kelvin timeline because it proves Star Wars wins!!!! 😂

No, you made a blanketed statement without proof and acted like I needed to disprove the force aided the ewoks. That isn't how debating works you made the claim which until you provide proof is baseless.