First Order vs The United Federation of Planets

Originally posted by quanchi112
[B]The actual evidence from the films is far more reliable than some hinky guide making a statement based off a completely separate timeline. What do you mean we don't know how these two would affect each other. It's simple both weapons require a certain force and its up to us to figure out based off their showings the impact of said weapons. We do not need a guide describing Hulk's strength to figure out if he hits Superman it is going to hurt or impact him.

It'a hilarious that you think that. We can't just look at something and assume it will have the same affect on something else. To follow your Hulk v Superman example, just because Superman was able to punch a guy and hurt him, doesn't mean Hulk can replicate that. We need detailed data and similar circumstances to draw evidence in order to make an EDUCATED theory, as opposed to an assumption that since Hulk could hurt someone, that Superman could, too. Since there's no way to know how a phaser would react to a SW shield, and a turbolaser to ST shields, we make assumptions based on data we have that is more reliable. I take the movie showings and apply them to things like this with a grain of salt, given that we don't have any real data other than what we see, and just looking at two things and comparing them isn't always reliable since we don't know if we will get the same results if the situation was changed. Do you get what I'm saying now? We can't assume something just because it looks like things will play out in a certain way, we have to use real data, crunch numbers, and analyze everything to find an answer to this question, and until you provide something like that for the Kelvin timeline, all I have to go on is data from the Prime timeline, and scale up given that you claim (I have yet to find anything that supports this) that the Kelvin weapons are more advanced. So, please provide some data and sources supporting your argument, or don't, and leave your argument baseless 👆

The hilarious thing is Lucas made inaccurate scientific statements in Star Wars films before and you're acting like it all totally makes sense.

Like what? Care to back this up, or leave it baseless like very thing else?

The writers and directors aren't in a room crushing numbers based off a guides information despite your insistence.

I never implied they were, I'm simply saying that we won't draw an accurate conclusion from just looking at the movies, we have to go deeper, as I've been saying. If you want to debunk my argument, at least do so with some effort, maybe you'll get somewhere 👆

You believing you have the superior argument is the bitter irony here. With a straight face you're saying ignore the films and hey look at this tech guide which has nothing to do with the Kelvin timeline because it proves Star Wars wins!!!! 😂

I have the better argument because I'm backing up my statements and arguments, while all you have is a biased video. The movies do have important information in them for settling this argument, but using them as the only source is what the problem is. We can't get an accurate answer from just the movies, but I agree that using examples from the Prime timeline won't either, hence why I would like to see something that supports the Kelvin timeline other than the movies. Since I have yet to find anything on the Kelvin timeline that we can use for this debate other than the movies, I use the examples provided by the Prime timeline.

If what you say is true about the Kelvin timeline having more advanced technology than the Prime timeline (which, as usual, you have yet to back up), then we scale up from there, and even if we multiply the results of number crunching and valid data, it still doesn't compare to the technology of the Clone Wars, most of which became outdated and nearly useless by ANH.

No, you made a blanketed statement without proof and acted like I needed to disprove the force aided the ewoks. That isn't how debating works you made the claim which until you provide proof is baseless.

It's hilarious and ironic that you're getting on me for it when you have yet to provide proof for and back up a single of your arguments as accurate. I concede this point, as I remember reading that the "Will of the Force" was for the Empire to fall, and it got specific in discussing how it affected the Battle of Endor, but I can't find it. So, since I can't back it up, I give you a win where. Not that it affects the debate in any way.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
It'a hilarious that you think that. We can't just look at something and assume it will have the same affect on something else. To follow your Hulk v Superman example, just because Superman was able to punch a guy and hurt him, doesn't mean Hulk can replicate that. We need detailed data and similar circumstances to draw evidence in order to make an EDUCATED theory, as opposed to an assumption that since Hulk could hurt someone, that Superman could, too. Since there's no way to know how a phaser would react to a SW shield, and a turbolaser to ST shields, we make assumptions based on data we have that is more reliable. I take the movie showings and apply them to things like this with a grain of salt, given that we don't have any real data other than what we see, and just looking at two things and comparing them isn't always reliable since we don't know if we will get the same results if the situation was changed. Do you get what I'm saying now? We can't assume something just because it looks like things will play out in a certain way, we have to use real data, crunch numbers, and analyze everything to find an answer to this question, and until you provide something like that for the Kelvin timeline, all I have to go on is data from the Prime timeline, and scale up given that you claim (I have yet to find anything that supports this) that the Kelvin weapons are more advanced. So, please provide some data and sources supporting your argument, or don't, and leave your argument baseless

What the **** do you mean we have no way to tell how it would react to SW shields ? It's either powerful enough to break through or it will accrue damage until it is breached. We can make reasonable assumptions based off the showings from each set of films to compare. We know Trek ships minus shields can withstand the impact of high speeds into a mountain. That's one showing illustrating the durability of a Star Trek ship minus a shield. We can then come to the conclusions the shields are greater than that since they protect these ships. We see how easily Trek super shields maul the federations Enterprise with their weapons.

The data doesn't sync up with the films and we as intelligent people should have already reached this conclusion. You want to forego the visual and compelling evidence and instead focus on irrelevant data entires for a series completely outside of the Kelvin timeline and you astonishly think this is the best way.

For all of you bastards TL;DR

Tonde believes technical guides outside for the DS9 are more relevant than the visual evidence from the Kelvin trilogy.

You do not have the showings from the films to make the case the Trek ships can't damage the Star Destroyers since much smaller and much less powerful ships have brought down said star destroyers.

Like what? Care to back this up, or leave it baseless like very thing else?

I never implied they were, I'm simply saying that we won't draw an accurate conclusion from just looking at the movies, we have to go deeper, as I've been saying. If you want to debunk my argument, at least do so with some effort, maybe you'll get somewhere 👆
[/B]

We go deeper by examining the direct evidence. You'd rather ignore the actual movie showings and facts in favor of guides written by people not responsible for the movie itself.

I have the better argument because I'm backing up my statements and arguments, while all you have is a biased video. The movies do have important information in them for settling this argument, but using them as the only source is what the problem is. We can't get an accurate answer from just the movies, but I agree that using examples from the Prime timeline won't either, hence why I would like to see something that supports the Kelvin timeline other than the movies. Since I have yet to find anything on the Kelvin timeline that we can use for this debate other than the movies, I use the examples provided by the Prime timeline.[/B]

If what you say is true about the Kelvin timeline having more advanced technology than the Prime timeline (which, as usual, you have yet to back up), then we scale up from there, and even if we multiply the results of number crunching and valid data, it still doesn't compare to the technology of the Clone Wars, most of which became outdated and nearly useless by ANH.
[/B]

It's hilarious and ironic that you're getting on me for it when you have yet to provide proof for and back up a single of your arguments as accurate. I concede this point, as I remember reading that the "Will of the Force" was for the Empire to fall, and it got specific in discussing how it affected the Battle of Endor, but I can't find it. So, since I can't back it up, I give you a win where. Not that it affects the debate in any way. [/B]

I'll respond tomorrow afternoon.

🙂

As soon as Ellimist can agree to a set date the Ot era will be decimated by the Kelvin era. Those who doubt the sincerity of my words will indeed see the errors of their ways hopefully soon.

This brawl takes place in the Kelvin era. Haven't been to this forum in a few days.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
This brawl takes place in the Kelvin era. Haven't been to this forum in a few days.

Nai seems to have retreated from his defense of the Ot era against the superior Kelvin timeline.

Tondemonai, Nai, etc. have all fled.

🙂

I've been swamped at school, and have had no time to write a good response. I could respond if you like, but I barely have enough time to write paragraph responses most of the time.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
I've been swamped at school, and have had no time to write a good response. I could respond if you like, but I barely have enough time to write paragraph responses most of the time.

I don't expect to have much homework this weekend, I will give you my attention then.

Anything to add, Nai ? If not this cements your status as a despicable coward.

🙂

..........

Well ?

🙂

Tonde ??

The United Federation of Planets . . . effortlessly. Since PIS and CIS is presumably off, they're spam their warp technology to the limit and warp torpedoes into the hulls of every First Order flagship in the galaxy.