Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Darth Maul

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Other than telling you to accept the ground realities of Maul?

So it's a concession?

And why does he refrain himself for the sake of wider schemes? Perhaps because those wider scheme's might need a living sentient being to act them out, rather than a headless body left to decompose on a backwater planet? Of course, running away from Obi Wan is sensible, Maul has seen what Kenobi can do to Savage with his brother aiding him, he's also seen what a younger Kenobi can do to Maul by virtue of superior speed - click

So you admit that the fighting Force of Gaila and Kenobi is too much Force Maul? In which case, concession accepted. Or are you making a general statement in regard to the Jedi order, and the type of numbers they could summon for a mission on the scale of the Geonosis invasion, which is completely absent from the episode altogether?

And yet, they still chase after Kenobi, in your opinion, needlessly.

You mean the non existent threat that doesn't show up to aid Kenobi?

That's just pure conjecture, there's nothing indicating that more Jedi were about to be deployed. Leaving Kenobi alive only means he can relay more information to council once he returns, safe and healthily. And this totally contradicts the Idea that Maul can simply ragdoll Obi Wan whenever he wants.

That's a conversation for another day. Also.., I don't see what's homophobic about my comment? Did I say gays were bad or should be executed as per the Koran? Nope, I said that if you spent less time getting a hard on every time you grabbed your dick to piss, and learned what the definition of a TKO is, you might understand why it doesn't fit the description of what Maul did to Kenobi.

Anyway, the point is Maul was hardly at his mercy, rather he was able to exert telekinetic domination over him with ease.

Originally posted by MythLord
I doubt Kenobi would get kicked by, and be at the mercy of, Ezra.

He wins.

Dunno about that. He did get owned by Cad Bane once.

I think people are forgetting how much Filoni used to shit on Kenobi as well during the early seasons of TCW.

He only gave him his worth again when Maul came along. So there's still hope for Maul to be redeemed yet.

Yeah, Maul trolling aside, Kenobi wins.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh-huh, my point dear is that Maul's intent to kill Kenobi at that moment is obvious, however he restrains himself for the sake of his wider schemes.

Now to put that into greater contexts for those who failed to pick up on them while watching the episode. At the beginning of which are told that the Jedi are "too many" for Maul and Savage to stand against alone, later, when the Jedi find them on Florrum Maul bemoans that "it's too soon, my plan isn't finished yet", then to add insult to injury his brother ends up losing an arm, making them further ill equipped to stand against the looming Jedi threat.

In other words even if Maul had continued to fight and succeeded in killing Kenobi, he'd remain left with an armless brother, an incomplete power base (as well as insufficient man power to secure it) and the inevitable deployment of more Jedi. Under those circumstances retreat was a smart decision.
Homophobic slurs only make you look less intelligent dear, as hard it may be to believe that is still possible. On the other hand:

👆

Originally posted by MythLord
And then letting Ezra floor him? I'm sure Sidious, Vader or Dooku let their apprentices floor them in a fit of rage just cuz... Oh no wait; Vader couldn't touch Sidious, Dooku one-shotted Asajj, and Vader brutalized Marek in early spars

Well actually if we go by Filoni (the guy whose shitting all over Maul himself) then Luke was not a match for Vader in any way, shape or form as applied to Saber combat. So Vader must have let Luke floor him.

Luke was the apprentice Vader wanted just as Ezra is the apprentice Maul wants.

Also Palpatine let Galen drop him. And if we go by Witer, then Vader let Starkiller II drop him in TFU II.

So that's certainly a plausible set-up for a potential Master to do.

Sabers - Kenobi, barely. I can see them equals as duelists during TCW. Assuming, that Kenobi bacame at least a bit better, he should takes this in a titanic fight

Force - Maul takes this, he's Kenobi's superior by some margin

Regular - Tie or very small majority for Kenobi. Kenobi can focus all of his attention on Maul, so I doubt, that he'll be catched off-gaurd by choke or smth. Sabers would be deciding factor.

OM Maul - Kenobi takes this, with moderate difficulty at worst.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nothing then.

Accepting the ground realities of fodder Maul 101.

Savage could have been killed in any number of ways if Maul had decided to stick around, quite.

That's not an excuse. Savage isn't an incubated fetus. Not only could he pick up his leg-less brother and carry him to their escapee vessel directly afterwards, but he could also apparently deflect shots from Hondo's motley cru with the arm still attached to his body. Maul could have instructed him to flee the action entierely and let his elder brother share him in dismemberment... but of course, Maul would rather not fight Kenobi on his own.

Kenobi's death would have benefitted Maul's plans in a number of ways

So it's a concession?

Uh-huh, to begin with you're failing to frame this within the contexts of Maul's perspective. Who has every reason to believe the Jedi, as a body, now know where he is (which if Adi and Kenobi had any sense, they probably did) and will continue to send people to kill him until he is dead

I am framing this from the perspective of Maul, taking into regard his personal experiences with the Jedi before his self imposed exile. Maul has no reason to believe that the Jedi as a body would turn up univited, bursting into a the outer rim in cliched 'you and what army' stylee. Why, might you ask? Because such a backup plan was absent on - of all places - Naboo, given that he was perfectly content in killing both Qui Gon and his younger padwan until his legs went missing - but hey perhaps that's the reason why Maul doesn't want to fight Kenobi, rather than the looming threat of a non existent Jedi strike that would eventually come to spill his salt shakers.

I appreciate the backtracking, it's what people like yourself tend to do when called out on their BS.

I honestly don't care what you do with your anus. I'm merely suggesting that hours spent ensnaring underaged boys on Grindr could have been consumed by doing something productive, such as watching UFC.

On the other hand yeah he was knocked out, by telekinesis, and I couldn't care less whether that fits with your rulebook definition, when in a fictional duel between space wizards with lazer swords there are no frikken referees lmao.

He was neither knocked out nor was he TKO'd, and yes Beni, when you use words or phrases that have literal definitions, i expect you to use them with their assigned meaning. I would similarly call you out if lothario was being used as another term for a serial murderer. Wizards with laser swords do not make any length to adjust the native language you and I are - supposedly - fluent in. So let's clarify this, a technical knockout is when a fighter isn't fit enough to carry on fighting. Seen as that term can't be used to describe Kenobi in that situation, it doesn't apply to him.

Anyway, the point is Maul was hardly at his mercy, rather he was able to exert telekinetic domination over him with ease.

In other words, Maul slammed Kenobi into wall with little immediate or lasting effect, seen as the latter could just get up and start sprinting after him. All this goes to show is that Maul can't compete with the likes of Dooku - who actually can leave Kenobi out cold. In other words, DE Luke should be vastly superior to Palatine and be able to rag doll him on any given day.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
That's not an excuse. Savage isn't an incubated fetus. Not only could he pick up his leg-less brother and carry him to their escapee vessel directly afterwards, but he could also apparently deflect shots from Hondo's motley cru with the arm still attached to his body. Maul could have instructed him to flee the action entierely and let his elder brother share him in dismemberment... but of course, Maul would rather not fight Kenobi on his own.

So it's a concession?

however after Savage was crippled he'd begun to hit diminishing returns.

I am framing this from the perspective of Maul, taking into regard his personal experiences with the Jedi before his self imposed exile.

Maul has no reason to believe that the Jedi as a body would turn up univited, bursting into a the outer rim in cliched 'you and what army' stylee.

Why, might you ask? Because such a backup plan was absent on - of all places - Naboo, given that he was perfectly content in killing both Qui Gon and his younger padwan until his legs went missing - but hey perhaps that's the reason why Maul doesn't want to fight Kenobi, rather than the looming threat of a non existent Jedi strike that would eventually come to spill his salt shakers

doing something productive, such as watching UFC.

He was neither knocked out nor was he TKO'd, and yes Beni, when you use words or phrases that have literal definitions, i expect you to use them with their assigned meaning. I would similarly call you out if lothario was being used as another term for a serial murderer. Wizards with laser swords do not make any length to adjust the native language you and I are - supposedly - fluent in. So let's clarify this, a technical knockout is when a fighter isn't fit enough to carry on fighting. Seen as that term can't be used to describe Kenobi in that situation, it doesn't apply to him.

In other words, Maul slammed Kenobi into wall with little immediate or lasting effect, seen as the latter could just get up and start sprinting after him. All this goes to show is that Maul can't compete with the likes of Dooku - who actually can leave Kenobi out cold. In other words, DE Luke should be vastly superior to Palatine and be able to rag doll him on any given day.

As for this (irrelevant) comparison with Dooku you keep trying to shoe-horn into the debate, an impressive feat for the Count yes, but I wonder if he'd be able to replicate it only by employing a Force push as Maul did. But then we already know the answer to that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dismemberment is perfectly rational excuse lmao

lmao, of course it isn't. For Savage, he has been wounded by a heated instrument that prevents bleeding or catching infection, he doesn't even need to be treated. Repost for intense pain, an average shitlib like yourself could survive this. So a seven-foot muscletank who can summon external energy to sustain himself should just be fine. Not only is he able to survive, but he's still actually in a position to walk, run and carry on fighting Kenobi if loosing more limbs becomes is a fetish. In Attack of the Clones Obi Wan couldn't even stand up, yet Dooku receives no pause from Anakin, and not even Yoda, who upon seeing dismembered Jedi piled up on top of one another, thinks tactical retreat is necessary... so what's Maul's excuse? Could it be that he doesn't want to battle an obviously superior swordsman?

and Savage's ability to escape with his life does not preclude his inability to take on and defeat a horde of pirates in combat,

Neither Maul or Savage know that there's a horde of pirates waiting to capture them, he doesn't know that Hondo has reclaimed the once traitorous cast off's that worked under him. I thought we were reframing this from Maul's perspective? Or does that no longer suit your argument? Because they're finally faced with the insolent Hondo, it is made evidently clear that they have only one reason to flee - they are running away form Kenobi

Right, I never recall making the argument that the entire Jedi Order would arrive in force, that was a narrative you constructed in one of your nonsense ramblings. On the other hand yes, the fact that Jedi outnumbered the Brothers 5,000 to 1 and were relentlessly pursuing them across the galaxy were a present concerns for Maul made plain at the beginning of the episode. And in their present state, 2 or 3 might be enough to at least do Savage in .A mission he was instructed to complete at his Master's behest, and with a mindset that Shadow Conspiracy notes has evolved since those events. In other words a moot point.:

You have no evidence to prove that the Anti-maul strike team exists, let alone Maul believing one might turn up. If he did, he would say this to Savage - "we should leave, more will be coming", but he doesn't. Instead he pursues Kenobi relentlessly until he no longer has the advantage of another set of hands fighting alongside him. The change of circumstance often prompts an Oh Crap! expression, and inevitably Maul can't afford to have more limbs replaced with metal. So now that we can strike off non-existent armies coming to aid the not-so-endangered Obi Wan, what do you have left? Are you going to tell me they weren't retreating, but were simply advancing in the opposite direction? What excuses for Maul can be left other than that he's simply an inferior fighter.

Sorry, I meant telekinetic knock out, I guess I wasn't think about your TV program when debating Star Wars. Blowing Kenobi away across a dozen meters or so, and still retaining enough force to incapacitate him, however briefly, is a notable display of telekinetic superiority yes, and I fail to see how it compares to throwing a clone of Palpatine across a few feet who had yet to regain his full strength.

Well it was neither knock-out nor was it technical, so that's a moot point. All you've proven is that Maul can barely leave Kenobi scratching his head, before he can get up and chasing them down. And yes, sorry Beni words have had assigned meaning in linguistics dating as far back as the Twenty-sixth dynasty Egypt. Take some time out of watching prolapsing rectums of fatogayporn.com to educate yourself.

As for this (irrelevant) comparison with Dooku you keep trying to shoe-horn into the debate, an impressive feat for the Count yes, but I wonder if he'd be able to replicate it only by employing a Force push as Maul did. But then we already know the answer to that.

Well that's irrelevant seen as Maul couldn't knock Kenobi out by grappling him or pushing him - - click - and he certainly couldn't do it with Anakin Skywalker whispering behind him. If anything Kenobi's is maul's TK superior drawn from an account of feats.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
lmao, of course it isn't. For Savage, he has been wounded by a heated instrument that prevents bleeding or catching infection, he doesn't even need to be treated. Repost for intense pain, an average shitlib like yourself could survive this. So a seven-foot muscletank who can summon external energy to sustain himself should just be fine. Not only is he able to survive, but he's still actually in a position to walk, run and carry on fighting Kenobi if loosing more limbs becomes is a fetish. In Attack of the Clones Obi Wan couldn't even stand up, yet Dooku receives no pause from Anakin, and not even Yoda, who upon seeing dismembered Jedi piled up on top of one another, thinks tactical retreat is necessary... so what's Maul's excuse? Could it be that he doesn't want to battle an obviously superior swordsman?

In which case yes, Maul needs Savage's muscle to secure their territory and ward off future Jedi threats, nor is his arm getting any better. Even if more Jedi have arrived tomorrow they'd still be unprepared. How that compares to Anakin and Kenobi's situation when they had the Seppies on the run, and an army of Jedi and clones at their back I don't know, but then logic clearly isn't your strong suit.

Neither Maul or Savage know that there's a horde of pirates waiting to capture them, he doesn't know that Hondo has reclaimed the once traitorous cast off's that worked under him. I thought we were reframing this from Maul's perspective? Or does that no longer suit your argument? Because they're finally faced with the insolent Hondo, it is made evidently clear that they have only one reason to flee - they are running away form Kenobi

You have no evidence to prove that the Anti-maul strike team exists, let alone Maul believing one might turn up. If he did, he would say this to Savage - "we should leave, more will be coming", but he doesn't. Instead he pursues Kenobi relentlessly until he no longer has the advantage of another set of hands fighting alongside him. The change of circumstance often prompts an Oh Crap! expression, and inevitably Maul can't afford to have more limbs replaced with metal. So now that we can strike off non-existent armies coming to aid the not-so-endangered Obi Wan, what do you have left? Are you going to tell me they weren't retreating, but were simply advancing in the opposite direction? What excuses for Maul can be left other than that he's simply an inferior fighter.

Nonetheless it's interesting that you bring that to attention, considering what Maul actually says is:

"Come my apprentice, this plan has failed."

"Credit chips are meaningless without a plan to survive. The Jedi are hunting us, we will be forced to make a stand."

Well it was neither knock-out nor was it technical, so that's a moot point. All you've proven is that Maul can barely leave Kenobi scratching his head, before he can get up and chasing them down. And yes, sorry Beni words have had assigned meaning in linguistics dating as far back as the Twenty-sixth dynasty Egypt. Take some time out of watching prolapsing rectums of fatogayporn.com to educate yourself.

Regardless if all you have left are strawman and ad hominens then, concession accepted.

Well that's irrelevant seen as Maul couldn't knock Kenobi out by grappling him or pushing him - - click - and he certainly couldn't do it with Anakin Skywalker whispering behind him. If anything Kenobi's is maul's TK superior drawn from an account of feats.

And I lol'ed.

Kenobi already lost to Maul, 3 times.