Strength Ratings

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? Getting out of a chokehold isn't overpowering someone?

And Superman wasn't there to beat him up. One punch is what it took too.

No exact number was given. It's likely more than lifting a street though.

You seriously stop to run your mouth. That was before Superman and Lois were dating and right in Byrne Era. Did you even read the comic?

That's entire scene. That comic is in present. Now you're claiming it was a weaker King Shark?

😂

It wasn't gravity though. He was drawn to his older body.

Are you seriously suggesting that Aquaman, King Shark or Ocean Master are anywhere near Superman in strength? We can create another thread to discuss that if you're so eager.

Why don't you compare them to Superboy as per thread topic? Or Wonder Woman?

One punch is what it took to do what? Orm was still conscious, he wasn't bleeding, there wasn't much harm other then being sent flying backwards which is only as much of an accomplishment as you want to make it..

Based on what is it more then lifting a street, the problem here is your can't determine how much PG is pushing. Logically if we go by her city ship strength feat since that's the highest shown by herself. I'm still curious to what the issue number to that is though?

PG's city feat also isn't the same as lifting a city with all the construction and living stuff equated onto an actual city. Weight comes off due to the lack of buildings, vehicles, construction, and etc.

Byrne era..? Took pace in 2006 and yeah I read the Lori was using Superman stuff. If you read the comic you'd know Lois is referred to as Superman's girlfriend in the comic..

Yeah I'd call if a weaker KS, that's the depiction of KS when he first showed up. Any later appearance he was drank more imposing and wasn't dismissed as easily.

I'm not suggesting their near Superman I'm just bringing up instances where Superman struggled against them. I'm using Superman because he's stronger than Wonder Woman and Superboy. Same reason I mentioned Desperate earlier.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
One punch is what it took to do what? Orm was still conscious, he wasn't bleeding, there wasn't much harm other then being sent flying backwards which is only as much of an accomplishment as you want to make it..

And he was still overpowered when Superman broke out of chokehold.

So what are you trying to spin here?

Based on what is it more then lifting a street, the problem here is your can't determine how much PG is pushing.

What The ****? You think pushing an overgrown moon with the help of six other characters isn't above lifting a street?

She could've pushed a thousandth part of the moon and it would still be magnitudes above lifting a street.

Logically if we go by her city ship strength feat since that's the highest shown by herself. I'm still curious to what the issue number to that is though?

PG's city feat also isn't the same as lifting a city with all the construction and living stuff equated onto an actual city. Weight comes off due to the lack of buildings, vehicles, construction, and etc.

Power Girl 3.

😂

Now stopping a city sized ship is lowballed.

Good.

And no, her best feat is surviving in a Quasar created by Oblivion to destroy entire universe.

Byrne era..? Took pace in 2006 and yeah I read the Lori was using Superman stuff.

It takes place in a flashback. All of the issues deal with the earliest era of Superman.

If you read the comic you'd know Lois is referred to as Superman's girlfriend in the comic..

Superman was engaged with Lois in Superman v2 50.

Back in Byrne Era.

Yeah I'd call if a weaker KS, that's the depiction of KS when he first showed up. Any later appearance he was drank more imposing and wasn't dismissed as easily.

Hahaha, what? That's the present day King Shark and Superman was stronger than his Byrne Era.

Superman would dismiss Aquaman that easily too.

I'm not suggesting their near Superman I'm just bringing up instances where Superman struggled against them. I'm using Superman because he's stronger than Wonder Woman and Superboy. Same reason I mentioned Desperate earlier.

But he never struggled them besides one panel after which he easily overpowered every one of them.

Superboy has done better than that against both Superman and Cyborg-Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing
2. Colossus
3. Superboy
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian)
5. Wonder Woman

What?

I don't think Aquaman is in the ballpark of the Kryptonians. I might have been a bit too generous with the zeroes though, let me fix that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And he was still overpowered when Superman broke out of chokehold.

So what are you trying to spin here?

What The ****? You think pushing an overgrown moon with the help of six other characters isn't above lifting a street?

She could've pushed a thousandth part of the moon and it would still be magnitudes above lifting a street.

Power Girl 3.

😂

Now stopping a city sized ship is lowballed.

Good.

And no, her best feat is surviving in a Quasar created by Oblivion to destroy entire universe.

It takes place in a flashback. All of the issues deal with the earliest era of Superman.

Superman was engaged with Lois in Superman v2 50.

Back in Byrne Era.

Hahaha, what? That's the present day King Shark and Superman was stronger than his Byrne Era.

Superman would dismiss Aquaman that easily too.

But he never struggled them besides one panel after which he easily overpowered every one of them.

Superboy has done better than that against both Superman and Cyborg-Superman.

We don't see Superman break out of the choke hold we don't even know how he did it. For all we know Superman rammed him into the ocean floor to get him off. That's the problem with your analysis it's being over generous to something that lacks a lot of context. Overall it's Superman biast.

Give me the calcs for Powergirl moving her unquantifiable part of the moon? Give me the calcs of her moving a city sized ship without all of the material on a city?

It's not lowballing if there's logic to the criticism, I'm just being critique.

You'd have to show me the Oblivion feat.

Byrne Era ended in 1988.. Superman proposed in the 90s

Kind of weak logic to begin with Byrne didn't right the confidential issue

Kind of hard to believe since he struggled so bad to dismiss Orm.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace

Byrne Era ended in 1988.. Superman proposed in the 90s

Kind of weak logic to begin with Byrne didn't right the confidential issue

Confidential [All of the confidential books] are hard to place in continuity precisely, and many are actually 'lost' stories from various eras and had no place in any of the primary books, and wouldn't get their own minis, because people would think they were current. And again, a few of the arcs were actually written by Byrne himself.

Most of the time you can figure it out by the cast and the way they act together, like who is in the Justice League, etc.

Byrne also was a creator on issue 50 in 1990, when Superman engaged Lois.

So the issue is before that

If Pre Flashpoint Aquaman is 100 in strength, rate these characters in strength.

1. Thing 40
2. Colossus 33
3. Superboy 140
4. Power Girl (Kryptonian) 250
5. Wonder Woman 200

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends on what you consider Byrne era. Some people consider it when he stopped on the primary titles, but others consider it essentially until Jurgens took over, killed that Superman, and brought back the real Superman, and began powering him up. This is largely because they were still riding Byrne's plotting and power levels for some time after he left.

Confidential [All of the confidential books] are hard to place in continuity precisely, and many are actually 'lost' stories from various eras and had no place in any of the primary books, and wouldn't get their own minis, because people would think they were current. And again, a few of the arcs were actually written by Byrne himself.

Most of the time you can figure it out by the cast and the way they act together, like who is in the Justice League, etc.

Byrne also was a creator on issue 50 in 1990, when Superman engaged Lois.

So the issue is before that

Byrne was a penciler. Jurgens wrote the issue.

Even if Writers were following Byrne after his run. That shouldn't have anything to do with Confidential sure Confidential was a back track but the time period would of been around an Era where Superman's depiction had went up again. Since confidential took place in 2006.

It could be argued I guess that this was a weaker Superman based on suit of how Byrne wrote him. But I'd personally doubt it given its a look back from a decade or 2 later.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Byrne was a penciler. Jurgens wrote the issue.

Even if Writers were following Byrne after his run. That shouldn't have anything to do with Confidential sure Confidential was a back track but the time period would of been around an Era where Superman's depiction had went up again. Since confidential took place in 2006.

It could be argued I guess that this was a weaker Superman based on suit of how Byrne wrote him. But I'd personally doubt it given its a look back from a decade or 2 later.

Regardless of publish date, the flashback story told is placed before issue 50. It's the Byrne era Superman.
Not to mention Byrne was the one doing Lori stories back in Man of Steel.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm aware. That's why it says creator.

Regardless of publish date, the flashback story told is placed before issue 50. It's the Byrne era Superman.
Not to mention Byrne was the one doing Lori stories back in Man of Steel.

I still don't think that makes Superman weaker because it's a flashback that took place in an Era but is written 10 to 20 years later.

Aquaman Hookhand being bulletproof or resistance to bullets was pretty speculative during those Eras. He wasn't ever really stated resistant to bullets in the Hook hand days until a Flashback that happened in One Year Later.

Convergence also confirmed him being highly bullet resistance during his hook hand days.

Example wise. I don't think Flashbacks to earlier periods are made most of the time to set characters held back for stories. I don't the 2006 story that was set flashbacked to the "Byrne Era" suggest that Superman was put on that power level.

It's speculative though I'll admit.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
We don't see Superman break out of the choke hold we don't even know how he did it. For all we know Superman rammed him into the ocean floor to get him off. That's the problem with your analysis it's being over generous to something that lacks a lot of context. Overall it's Superman biast.

And its not Aquaman bias from your end? Are you seriously trying to say that Superman couldn't overpower ocean master?

Where is the proof?

It's not a lack of context. It's simple knowledge of the characters that Superman is a LOT stronger than Ocean Master. But you want your cake and eat it too.

Give me the calcs for Powergirl moving her unquantifiable part of the moon? Give me the calcs of her moving a city sized ship without all of the material on a city?

Why would I do that? Are you trying to say that lifting a street is better than that? Be serious.

It's not lowballing if there's logic to the criticism, I'm just being critique.

What logic? That pushing an overgrown moon is somehow comparable to lifting a street just because it's unquantifiable?

What logic is that?

You'd have to show me the Oblivion feat.

Gimme a second.

Byrne Era ended in 1988.. Superman proposed in the 90s

Kind of hard to believe since he struggled so bad to dismiss Orm.

Struggled? By one panel which we don't see after?

You're so desperate its not even funny anymore. Should we create a Superman vs Ocean Master strength thread now?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And its not Aquaman bias from your end? Are you seriously trying to say that Superman couldn't overpower ocean master?

Where is the proof?

It's not a lack of context. It's simple knowledge of the characters that Superman is a LOT stronger than Ocean Master. But you want your cake and eat it too.

Why would I do that? Are you trying to say that lifting a street is better than that? Be serious.

What logic? That pushing an overgrown moon is somehow comparable to lifting a street just because it's unquantifiable?

What logic is that?

Gimme a second.

Byrne Era ended with DOS. Superman was essentially at the same strength level till DOS.

That's the same Superman and his strength level was consistent with that era.

Struggled? By one panel which we don't see after?

You're so desperate its not even funny anymore. Should we create a Superman vs Ocean Master strength thread now?

It's not I'm not making statements that I don't see unreasonable. I never said Ocean Master was stronger than Superman. That's you morphing my words into what you want it to sound like.

What I suggested was what a scan showed that Superman visibly struggled against Orm. You suggested Orm got overpowered and nowhere in the comic was that shown. You also suggested he casually got dismissed and again nowhere in the comic was that shown.

I can get why you stated that King Shark got dismissed, cause Superman tossed him away and we didn't see him again next panels over.

Honestly I don't get the logic in suggesting Power girl lifting/pushing/pulling an unquantifiable amount of the moon as greater. Cause honestly you've been struggling to give an exact amount of force she's moving, simply because you can't. It's not a single feat and there's stronger character than her present.

And Confidential happened about 2 decades after DOS, sure the story took place prior to DOS obvious by relationships in the story but nothing suggest powerlevels were dropped to fit into the story.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's not I'm not making statements that I don't see unreasonable. I never said Ocean Master was stronger than Superman. That's you morphing my words into what you want it to sound like.

Because you keep making one panel where Orm has Superman in a chokehold as Superman struggling. Another time Superman simply koed him by dropping a whale on him.

Under the same writer BTW.

What I suggested was what a scan showed that Superman visibly struggled against Orm. You suggested Orm got overpowered and nowhere in the comic was that shown. You also suggested he casually got dismissed and again nowhere in the comic was that shown.

Both things happened. Superman wasn't struggling "so bad" against Orm BTW. Nowhere was it shown.

I can get why you stated that King Shark got dismissed, cause Superman tossed him away and we didn't see him again next panels over.

King Shark never appeared again in the comic.

Honestly I don't get the logic in suggesting Power girl lifting/pushing/pulling an unquantifiable amount of the moon as greater.

Haha, seriously? How do you figure that?

Cause honestly you've been struggling to give an exact amount of force she's moving, simply because you can't. It's not a single feat and there's stronger character than her present.

They are not thousands of times stronger than her and like I said even if she moved a thousandth part of the moon, its far above anything Aquaman has ever done. But seriously how big of a part do you think she moved?

And Confidential happened about 2 decades after DOS, sure the story took place prior to DOS obvious by relationships in the story but nothing suggest powerlevels were dropped to fit into the story.

Yes, they were. King Shark broke his teeth trying to bite present day Superman. BTW Power Girl tanking a quasar and moving in it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because you keep making one panel where Orm has Superman in a chokehold as Superman struggling. Another time Superman simply koed him by dropping a whale on him.

Under the same writer BTW.

Both things happened. Superman wasn't struggling "so bad" against Orm BTW. Nowhere was it shown.

King Shark never appeared again in the comic.

Haha, seriously? How do you figure that?

They are not thousands of times stronger than her and like I said even if she moved a thousandth part of the moon, its far above anything Aquaman has ever done. But seriously how big of a part do you think she moved?

Yes, they were. King Shark broke his teeth trying to bite present day Superman. BTW Power Girl tanking a quasar and moving in it.

I'd call that inconsistent then.

I think I have the comic with the Whale scan when I was finding scans for my Orm respect thread. A whale's physical force shouldn't be enough to KO Orm. Garth someone weaker has been crushed and remained conscious from a seabed said to be several thousands of tons being on him.

It looks like a just for jokes if anything but even regarding it. It would be one showing versus. The instance in choice where Superman is visibly struggling against Orm and then the instance in the Prelude to Obsidian Age. Where Orm was holding back Superman and Wonder Woman. I don't think I said "so bad" I said Superman was struggling which is evident with how he's drawn in the instance.

Never suggested King Shark reappeared in the comic. If Superman is shown present time from when he thrown King Shark and King Shark has been gone for several panels while Superman remained. I'd consider it a loss for KS no matter if he showed back up 30 minutes later or the next day. To much time was spent gone and a lot of stuff happened during that time period.

I'm not giving an amount to Powergirl's feat, my point was it's simply unquantifiable you can't make it a number that she hasn't displayed on her own is my point, and I feel like you know that reason why you won't place a legit number.

In regards to the Quasar feat it's impressive. I don't know how much force a massive Black hole generates but I'm sure it's a lot
I'll probably look into even. In regards to the discussion I'll play the same card you did though with the Starro/Orion feat and dismiss it as an inconsistency.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd call that inconsistent then.

I think I have the comic with the Whale scan when I was finding scans for my Orm respect thread. A whale's physical force shouldn't be enough to KO Orm. Garth someone weaker has been crushed and remained conscious from a seabed said to be several thousands of tons being on him.

The whale is being thrown by Superman and he can throw it a lot harder.

But yeah, take it up with the writer as you said.

It looks like a just for jokes if anything but even regarding it. It would be one showing versus. The instance in choice where Superman is visibly struggling against Orm and then the instance in the Prelude to Obsidian Age. Where Orm was holding back Superman and Wonder Woman.

JLA 68? He was outright stated to be amped and he was using magic to stop Superman and Diana. Once Superman got serious it was over anyway.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, Superman wasn't struggling against Orm.

I don't think I said "so bad" I said Superman was struggling which is evident with how he's drawn in the instance.

Kind of hard to believe since he struggled so bad to dismiss Orm.

Short term memory loss?

And no, it doesn't shows Superman struggling.

Never suggested King Shark reappeared in the comic. If Superman is shown present time from when he thrown King Shark and King Shark has been gone for several panels while Superman remained. I'd consider it a loss for KS no matter if he showed back up 30 minutes later or the next day. To much time was spent gone and a lot of stuff happened during that time period.

So in a roundabout way, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Again.

I'm not giving an amount to Powergirl's feat, my point was it's simply unquantifiable you can't make it a number that she hasn't displayed on her own is my point, and I feel like you know that reason why you won't place a legit number.

Being unquantifiable doesn't means its lower than lifting a ****ing street as you are implying.

Is it more impressive than Aquaman's biggest lifting feat? Yes or no. And on what basis its not?

You are simply being stubborn at this point.

In regards to the Quasar feat it's impressive. I don't know how much force a massive Black hole generates but I'm sure it's a lot
I'll probably look into even. In regards to the discussion I'll play the same card you did though with the Starro/Orion feat and dismiss it as an inconsistency.

😂

And where is it that Power Girl struggled against a quasar that its inconsistent?

Where is any comparable feat from Aquaman BTW?

Originally posted by abhilegend
The whale is being thrown by Superman and he can throw it a lot harder.

But yeah, take it up with the writer as you said.

JLA 68? He was outright stated to be amped and he was using magic to stop Superman and Diana. Once Superman got serious it was over anyway.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, Superman wasn't struggling against Orm.

Short term memory loss?

And no, it doesn't shows Superman struggling.

So in a roundabout way, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Again.

Being unquantifiable doesn't means its lower than lifting a ****ing street as you are implying.

Is it more impressive than Aquaman's biggest lifting feat? Yes or no. And on what basis its not?

You are simply being stubborn at this point.

😂

And where is it that Power Girl struggled against a quasar that its inconsistent?

Where is any comparable feat from Aquaman BTW?

He wasn't stated to be amped in JLA 68. Wonder Woman suggested that he might be stronger in Atlantis then out of it which wasn't supported really by anything other then them struggling against Orm. That's not really an amp. Regardless it's irrelevant given most of Aquamans fights against Orm were guess where? In Atlantis.

On top of that "I can only Imagine" doesn't sound really supportive.
"His Native Soil" suggest Wonder Woman doesn't even know what she's talking about given Orm Post-Crisis wasn't born in Atlantis and couldn't even breathe underwater until Neron blessed him with power.

Yeah he was struggling. At this point it's just you in denial. I could somewhat give you "The Choice" being that it was one panel where Orm showed to be straining Superman, and it was a really short scuffle.

But Superman saying stuff like "Tell me *Grunts* I'm not crazy Orm's keeping us *Grunts* back with water" When you struggle to say a sentence and suggest your being kept in place and can't move forward. Then yeah your struggling. It reaffirms it by Superman has to dissipate the water with his Heat vision because neither him or Wonder Woman were able to physically overpower the wave.

A blind kid could tell you that Superman was struggling in this image on top of that Wonder Woman who just perfectly this thread is in discussion of.

The blind kid would also be right.

Then quantify the feat then mate. Tell me how much force of the portion of the moon she was pushing she personally attributed.

The Quasar doesn't match up to anything you've shown in this thread so yeah I'd call it inconsistent up into this point of the thread.

The best personal feats for PG you've shown in the thread so far is lifting a City Size ship and Going through a Quasar.

What about the Feat that in the same exact comic Aquaman tanked something that Ko'd Orion. That you casually dismissed saying it was inconsistent.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'm not suggesting that Superman couldn't throw something with enough force to knockout Orm. I'm questioning it being a whale though something Orm should be more durable than.

But he wasn't. End of story.

He wasn't stated to be amped in JLA 68. Wonder Woman suggested that he might be stronger in Atlantis then out of it which wasn't supported really by anything other then them struggling against Orm. That's not really an amp. Regardless it's irrelevant given most of Aquamans fights against Orm were guess where? In Atlantis.

And he is using magic which was running rampant in Atlantis after Garth removed Atlantis from the time and Ganmanae took it over land.

This wasn't normal atlatis.

On top of that "I can only Imagine" doesn't sound really supportive.
"His Native Soil" suggest Wonder Woman doesn't even know what she's talking about given Orm Post-Crisis wasn't born in Atlantis and couldn't even breathe underwater until Neron blessed him with power.

Have you even read the story? And what does using magic to repel Superman and Wonder Woman with water has to do with strength?

Yeah he was struggling. At this point it's just you in denial. I could somewhat give you "The Choice" being that it was one panel where Orm showed to be straining Superman, and it was a really short scuffle.

No, he wasn't. It was just a snapshot of the fight where Orm had Superman in a chokehold. That's it. Superman didn't struggle anywhere to break out of it.

But Superman saying stuff like "Tell me *Grunts* I'm not crazy Orm's keeping us *Grunts* back with water" When you struggle to say a sentence and suggest your being kept in place and can't move forward. Then yeah your struggling. It reaffirms it by Superman has to dissipate the water with his Heat vision because neither him or Wonder Woman were able to physically overpower the wave.

Yes, magic is not overpowered by Superman's strength. That just made Orm stronger.

Somehow.

A blind kid could tell you that Superman was struggling in this image on top of that Wonder Woman who just perfectly this thread is in discussion of.[quote]

Are we talking about Ocean Master's strength here? Why are you so fixated on Ocean Master having Superman in a chokehold for a panel anyway? Don't you have any Aquaman strength feats to discuss?

[quote]The blind kid would also be right.

You are just being an idiot at this point.

Then quantify the feat then mate. Tell me how much force of the portion of the moon she was pushing she personally attributed.

More than lifting a street as I said it. Even if Superman was twice as strong as her and the rest were as strong or slightly stronger, she would be providing at least 1/10th of the force necessary to move the ****ing moon.

The Quasar doesn't match up to anything you've shown in this thread so yeah I'd call it inconsistent up into this point of the thread.

So her highest feat is inconsistent? Way to dismiss a feat. I call Aquaman lifting a city block inconsistent too.

The best personal feats for PG you've shown in the thread so far is lifting a City Size ship and Going through a Quasar.

And both are below lifting a street? Right?

What about the Feat that in the same exact comic Aquaman tanked something that Ko'd Orion. That you casually dismissed saying it was inconsistent.

Because it doesn't goes along with how the characters were portrayed. But hey we never see Aquaman being hit by the blast.

So using your logic as Superman never overpowered Orm, Arthur was never hit by the blast.

Easy.

And where are your ratings? Why don't you come out and say how strong you think Aquaman is?

Originally posted by abhilegend
But he wasn't. End of story.

And he is using magic which was running rampant in Atlantis after Garth removed Atlantis from the time and Ganmanae took it over land.

This wasn't normal atlatis.

Have you even read the story? And what does using magic to repel Superman and Wonder Woman with water has to do with strength?

No, he wasn't. It was just a snapshot of the fight where Orm had Superman in a chokehold. That's it. Superman didn't struggle anywhere to break out of it.

Yes, magic is not overpowered by Superman's strength. That just made Orm stronger.

Somehow.

You are just being an idiot at this point.

More than lifting a street as I said it. Even if Superman was twice as strong as her and the rest were as strong or slightly stronger, she would be providing at least 1/10th of the force necessary to move the ****ing moon.

So her highest feat is inconsistent? Way to dismiss a feat. I call Aquaman lifting a city block inconsistent too.

And both are below lifting a street? Right?

Because it doesn't goes along with how the characters were portrayed. But hey we never see Aquaman being hit by the blast.

So using your logic as Superman never overpowered Orm, Arthur was never hit by the blast.

Easy.

It was present day Atlantis..
Atlantis didn't sink until Aquaman sunk it. Reason why it was on land and not in the sea. Atlantis was sent back in time but the Atlantis shown their was Present Day Atlantis. There was no magical boost from it shown.

The force of the water being hydrokinetically capable of keeping Superman and Wonder Woman back obviously... His scepter gives him the ability to magically control the ocean hence Ocean Master.

Lol at Superman making Orm stronger with his strength.. that's why his Heat vision boiled the water right? It was water reason it was boiled and reason Superman called it water.. the lengths you go to are outstanding though..

So you finally give an answer and 1/10th it is? Where in the comic did it suggest Power Girl was lifting 1/10th of the moon may I ask.

I could show you were water is being suggested to holding back Superman and Wonder Woman. Show me where 1/10th of the moon is being suggested as moved by Power Girl..

You've been dismissing feats left in right so it's about time you take the city street feat.

Honestly what are you talking about Aquaman wasn't in the blast he was right in it his arm is shown in comparison to the rest of his body through the blast. And he was flown right through it when Zauriel went to go rescue him..