Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaExcept the movies are of a higher canon than the novels, which themselves contradict one another. So by this logic movie novelisations should be out of bounds for you.
It's there, yes and it self contradicts.Just because I don't debate the subject of the movies and their general contradictions with the novels doesn't mean I don't hold the same stance. I take the novelizations of any work over their visual counterpart if they're of the same level of canon and contradict each other. ESPECIALLY if, like in the case of TFU and TFU II, the multiple visual mediums contradict each other anyways.
1. If you want to debate with feats from contradicted works that were declared canon you can feel free to to do that.
2. Assuming you're adopting the multiverse theory as well then?
A third person unbiased descritpvie source that depicts events in a way that can't be misinterpreted is always going to be place over visual events that are contradicted by their counterparts.
1. I will, because they are canon.
2. I am adopting Lucasfilm's official policy, yes.
In terms of anaylsing an event (for example Sidious vs Mace Windu) sure, I can agree with you. But we are not talking about the novel's description of an event vs. mine or your intepretation of the visual depiction. There is no room for debate that Vader gripped Marek in the Force in the game, and the novel doesn't offer some truth that suggests other factors were at play, or otherwise rule out it being possible.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I think Syndicate shoots himself in the foot by whiffing away at all that extra source material he could use for Starkiller. The Wii game for example, depicts him simply overpowering Vader with Force, in both titles. On the other hand, it also introduces some Force-less challengers that give the main character a lot of trouble. Galen had difficulty against both Kleef and Chop'aa, and there's also him getting shoved around by two separate Shadow Guards. However, all of this could be presented in a way to that makes the sun shine out of Marek's backside, but it requires a little eloquence and perhaps the ability to use the quote function on this forum - just as a nice little touch.On the other hand, Vader fans have been pinned to their corners ever since Old Ben's skills were determined and Luke's successful rebuttal of his Telekinesis was curtain called. They have also yet to explain why he can't win a tug of war with Kanan and Ezra in the middle of a dark side nexus. I see no reason for Fisto to be susceptible to a TK ownnage if the Jedi Master does not allow it. And Fisto is a vastly better swordsman on account of Obi Wan.
Because it would go against my actual views on the subject.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaYou can adopt that stance if you like, but the idea that Witwer is unreliable source in that regard holds no water.
Whatever the concept of TFUIII was going to be doesn't matter since it was never made.
Regardless, I rather think it simply as a way to read TFU II.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaThat Marek is Yoda-tier yeah.
Because it would go against my actual views on the subject.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Whatever the concept of TFUIII was going to be doesn't matter since it was never made.
But TFU II was made with TFU III in mind. They didn't just suddenly changed their mind about Vader.
At the early staged of TFU I development they were even reluctant to use Vader and Sidious as the villains, because they didn't want the player to beat them.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except the movies are of a higher canon than the novels, which themselves contradict one another. So by this logic movie novelisations should be out of bounds for you.1. I will, because they are canon.
2. I am adopting Lucasfilm's official policy, yes.
In terms of anaylsing an event (for example Sidious vs Mace Windu) sure, I can agree with you. But we are not talking about the novel's description of an event vs. mine or your intepretation of the visual depiction. There is no room for debate that Vader gripped Marek in the Force, and the novel doesn't offer some truth that suggests other factors were at play.
In new canon. I'm referring to Legends continuity.
How do the novels contradict themselves?
1. As is the novel and comic. The difference being of all the sources the novel is the only one that is a DESCRIPTIVE rather then visual medium and unlike the various games does not contradict each other in terms of what actually occurred.
2. Nothing you quote stated it was Lucasfilm policy to assume that different events depicted both occurred simultaneously. It's a contradiction and should be discarded.
Except it does since Starkiller has an entire paragraph of monologue devoted to thinking about how he needs to get Vader to lower his guard so he can quickly defeat him and check on Juno.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
You can adopt that stance if you like, but the idea that Witwer is unreliable source in that regard holds no water.Regardless, I rather think it simply as a way to read TFU II.That Marek is Yoda-tier yeah.
The idea that Witwer is a source speaking for Haden Blackman is also unsupported unless you have a quote hiding somewhere confirming such.
My actual view on interpreting sources.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
But TFU II was made with TFU III in mind. They didn't just suddenly changed their mind about Vader.At the early staged of TFU I development they were even reluctant to use Vader and Sidious as the villains, because they didn't want the player to beat them.
It doesn't matter what the intent was. It matters what was depicted.
And there's no evidence that Witwer was speaking on Blackman's behalf anyways.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNovaIn which the movies are or were G-Canon and the novels are C-Canon.
In new canon. I'm referring to Legends continuity.How do the novels contradict themselves?
1. As is the novel and comic. The difference being of all the sources the novel is the only one that is a DESCRIPTIVE rather then visual medium and unlike the various games does not contradict each other in terms of what actually occurred.
2. Nothing you quotes stated it was Lucasfilm policy to assume that different events depicted both occurred simultaneously. It's a contradiction and should be discarded.
Except it does since Starkiller has an entire paragraph of monologuing where he thinks to himself how he needs to get Vader to lower his guard so he can quickly defeat him and check on Juno.
Because there are multiple versions, usually at least a standard novelisation and a junior novelisation, which depict events differently. Sometimes more, in the case of ANH for example there are three different versions of the Vader vs Kenobi.
1. Cool, its all canon.
2. That's not what I said, you are the one who used the word "multiverse":
LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.
Or rather as I said, each medium is simply a different retelling of the one single set of events.
I'm confused as to what that is supposed to prove...
Originally posted by Beniboybling
In which the movies are or were G-Canon and the novels are C-Canon.Because there are multiple versions, usually at least a standard novelisation and a junior novelisation, which depict events differently. Sometimes more, in the case of ANH for example there are three different versions of the Vader vs Kenobi.
1. Cool, its all canon.
2. That's not what I said, you are the one who used the word "multiverse":
LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.
Or rather as I said, each medium is simply a different retelling of the one single set of events.
I'm confused as to what that is supposed to prove...
The novels were G canon along with the movies.
Those are two different sources therefore no contradictions occur within the same source as you claimed.
1. Except one was canonized arbitrarily regardless of the contradictions that occur.
2. I'm going to be siding with the non contradicted events for my "nuggets of truth" thank you very much.
If we were taking the game scenes into account and were trying to apply an in universe reason to why it occurred it would make sense that Starkiller would play possum to get Vader to lower his guard and Starkiller realigning himself midjump and landing no worse for wear would be indicative of such an attempt to get Vader to underestimate him.
I've explained this already:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15949363#post15949363
Which you saw. Please do not go full retard again.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The novels are were G canon along with the movies.Those are two different sources therefore no contradictions occur within the same source as you claimed.
1. Except one was canonized arbitrarily regardless of the contradictions that occur.
2. I'm going to be siding with the non contradicted events for my "nuggets of truth" thank you very much.
If we were taking the game scenes into account and were trying to apply an in universe reason to why it occurred it would make sense that Starkiller would play possum to get Vader to lower his guard and Starkiller realigning himself midjump and landing no worse for wear would be indicative of such an attempt to get Vader to underestimate him.
When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves--and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film [...]
While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.They appear to be on a higher footing to me.
I didn't claim that, I was drawing a comparison to your assertion that because the different versions of the games contradict one another, which is also the case for the different movie novelisations, they are invalid, unless your now asserting that their are contradictions within each version of the game itself? If so that is news to me.
1. I have no idea what you mean by "arbitrary", but they are canon.
2. OK, as long as you keep it to yourself.
Lol, what an excuse, regardless, something to debunk at a later date. As long as you face up to the fact the scene is canon.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I've explained this already:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15949363#post15949363
Which you saw. Please do not go full retard again.
In reference to the TFUIII game which was never actually made? Lmao.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
They appear to be on a higher footing to me.I didn't claim that, I was drawing a comparison to your assertion that because the different versions of the games contradict one another, which is also the case for the different movie novelisations, they are invalid, unless your now asserting that their are contradictions within each version of the game itself? If so that is news to me.
1. I have no idea what you mean by "arbitrary", but they are canon.
2. OK, as long as you keep it to yourself.
Lol, what an excuse, regardless, something to debunk at a later date. As long as you face up to the fact the scene is canon.
Those are canon quotes are they not?
No but in cases where the novelizations contradict and are of equal canon you would look towards another source that is not contradicted. I.E. in these particular cases, the movie.
1. If they have contradictions yet all versions were canonized then it means they weren't actually looked at for errors.
2. Not at all. I'll explain to you why taking a possible version of events when there's a third person descriptive version is idiotic and expect you to be enlightened.
It's contradicted and therefore discardable when we have a non contradicted version of events to turn to which is the case here.