Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then the ANH to FOTJ franchise. 👆Basically, what I *consistently* see here is the Nihilus Brigade constantly undergoing a state of denial and defense, rather than acceptance or offense.
We're in a state of defense because we are the one's defending against this claim since its readily apparent that Nihilus > Revan in terms of feats and displayed power. Therefore, the burden is on you to prove that despite the tangible evidence, Revan is on top for some reason.
In other words, you need to try harder.
Originally posted by The EllimistHow are the ancients different then what was envisioned tho? 😬
@Ant, if a source makes a claim, does the claim still hold if new evidence comes out afterwards that the source couldn't have anticipated (.i.e. the ancient sith being much different from what Avellone envisioned)?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Ant, if a source makes a claim, does the claim still hold if new evidence comes out afterwards that the source couldn't have anticipated (.i.e. the ancient sith being much different from what Avellone envisioned)?
Originally posted by The MerchantI hate when people misinterpret that quote.
Revan is considered by Traya to be the literal heart of the Force despite knowing how strong Nihilus and the Ancients are. She basically makes him out to be the Jesus Christ of the Force.
She says "Revan was power, it was like staring into the heart of the force."
I know what she said, that doesn't change what I said. We all know Revan wasn't LITERALLY the heart of the Forced, but the fact that he was compared to such gives off Trayas opinion on his power, which is pretty clear cut.
Revan>Ancients>Nihilus.
The only thing Nihilus has over the former two is how according to Traya he is using a technique that not only did the Ancient Sith forbid themselves from using since they'll end up like him, but he mastered it to new heights. But in terms of raw force power the former are still above him. In the DS path Traya says that after Nihilus absorbed multiple planets and how he brought the technique he uses to drain to its peak, his power would only rival some of the ancient Sith, I assume the ones that were mentioned in-game are the ones she's referring to. I already explained Revans situation.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Revan is considered by Traya to be the literal heart of the Force despite knowing how strong Nihilus and the Ancients are. She basically makes him out to be the Jesus Christ of the Force.
If you want quotes to match Kreia’s BS about looking at Revan is like looking at the heart of the Force....
Something with a bit more substance.
Kreia on Nihilus:
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
―Darth Traya (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)
This is actually a large interest of mine. They place an emphasis somewhat on how Nihilus sees things. It’s different from normal people as clearly stated by Traya and then further explained by Tobin. Ote this exchange.
Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.
Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?
Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.
―Visas Marr, Tobin and Canderous Ordo (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)
No, there's no proof that Revan's more powerful than Nihilus. Avellone never once said that Revan was more powerful than Nihilus (the quote posted earlier in this thread refers to character strength, not Force power, lmfao), and both Kreia and the Exile's comments in-game indicate otherwise.
Kreia claims that it's impossible to be as powerful as Nihilus without being some irrational abomination, whereas she clearly views Revan as being rational.
Likewise, the Exile doesn't believe that the level of power Nihilus wields is possible based on hearsay alone (with her having served alongside Revan in the Mandalorian Wars), let alone the fact that the game files note her realizing that Nihilus was far more powerful than she realized when she encountered him on the bridge of the Ravager.
The fact that Revan's " like the Heart of the Force" in Kreia's mind means nothing. Mid-game Exile was "like the death of the Force", yet she was a infinitesimal speck in comparison to Nihilus.
The fact that Meetra Surik thinks MW Revan's command of the Force far exceeded a bunch of renegade Jedi in the post-Jedi Civil War era in what might as well be an alternate reality where Surik suddenly gets ill from not feeling the Force (even though she endured that for a decade) and Sion/Traya/Nihilus were learning off teachings Malak uncovered doesn't mean anything to me. Drew shows in every source he's written pertaining to KotOR II that he doesn't know anything about the game (he doesn't even know when it took place, lmfao), and Avellone's non-game claims aren't canon - not that he's said anything about Revan > Nihilus anyway.