Originally posted by SunRazer
The fact that Meetra Surik thinks MW Revan's command of the Force far exceeded a bunch of renegade Jedi in the post-Jedi Civil War era in what might as well be an alternate reality where Surik suddenly gets ill from not feeling the Force (even though she endured that for a decade) and Sion/Traya/Nihilus were learning off teachings Malak uncovered doesn't mean anything to me. Drew shows in every source he's written pertaining to KotOR II that he doesn't know anything about the game (he doesn't even know when it took place, lmfao), and Avellone's non-game claims aren't canon - not that he's said anything about Revan > Nihilus anyway.
No, Drew is always incorrect on KotOR II, so he's wrong. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with what I like. As I said, his quote applies to the renegade Jedi from the post-JCW era, not Nihilus as depicted in KotOR II.
That's fancy coming from you with these outlandish interpretations of quotes that don't mean anything close to what you pretend they do.
I already told you - this has nothing to do with what I like. This is about Drew thinking that KotOR II took place five years later than it really did, thinking that the Exile would get ill from experiencing something that she uniquely endured for a decade, Drew thinking that Traya, Sion etc. turned to teachings that Malak uncovered, that the Exile is some generic Jedi without the notable ability to form Force Bonds or anything of the sort, that the Triumvirate were just a splinter faction of Jedi from after the Jedi Civil War, and that there were somehow tens of thousands of Jedi remaining after the JCW for the Triumvirate to slaughter. As I said, he's dead wrong on everything KotOR II every time he writes something about it.
So I see no reason for it to apply to a medium that Drew has already shown such blatant disrespect and ignorance for. He hasn't got a single detail about the game right. Since you love to talk about Avellone's authorial intent, what makes you think that Karpyshyn's references to the game were made with the authorial intent of referring to Nihilus as depicted in KotOR II, or anything close? As I said, MW Revan's command of the Force is far greater than the Nihilus who split away from the Jedi Order after the events of the Jedi Civil War and studied teachings that Malak had already uncovered. Which doesn't fit the Nihilus of KotOR II in any way, shape or form.
And I take you that you agree with me on all the other points relating to how KotOR II supports Nihilus > Revan as opposed to the other way around?
I'll try to explain on very basic terms, since many of you can't grasp this basic concept:
The fact the text doesn't refer them to dark side abominations doesn't mean they weren't. Lack of mention one way or another isn't a retcon or dismissal, just not addressing the point in general. The text's description of them is true - they were former Jedi turned Sith Lords that assumed control of the remnants of Revan's Sith Empire. These points aren't disputable.
If XY canonically exists, and a source of frankly higher canoncity just mentions X, that doesn't mean Y never happened. It means Y wasn't mentioned.
I'm frankly angry with myself I even entertain discussions like these, because they suggest there's any legitimacy to your cause, which there isn't. It's the rejection of canon in favor of pre-conceived biases, which you can't do.
The point is not up for debate.
No, the text's descriptions aren't true. Kreia didn't lead a splinter group of Jedi after the Jedi Civil War, and Malak uncovering the teachings that Nihilus, Sion, Kreia etc. discovered? Completely untrue. Tens of thousands of Jedi being around at that time? Completely untrue.
Sorry, but even "canonical" quotes aren't infallible. On what basis do you dismiss things like Bastila being on par with Obi-Wan/Dooku, and so on? "Preconceived biases"? Or logic?
And more importantly, this has nothing to do with pre-conceived biases. This has to do with pre-conceived continuity, which Drew isn't just retconning, but completely alienating himself from. He isn't writing about KotOR II in any sort of comparable context as us. He lives in some wonderland where every detail about the game is altered, or he's just too ignorant to care. Either way, that doesn't bode well for his credibility, and if he's spending the entire novel referring to this alternate reality KotOR II that he's even written his own fan-fic backstory for, what makes you think that this quote would suddenly apply to the KotOR II that we've known and seen?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
To clarify again, your point will *never* have any ground to stand on by sheer virtue of what it is: the rejection of a canon source.There's no reason to even try. You literally can not win.
In other words - "I don't care what you say, my denial will always stand true"? Great.
My point has very substantial ground, and as you can see, it has much more support than yours. It's not about the rejection of a canon source, it's about the rejection of a source that refers to a completely different version of the game than the one we know. I don't deny the quote about Revan's command of the Force, but it's obvious that it applies to Drew's version of KotOR II, not Avellone's version. And that's all there is to it.
I've already disproven everything else Drew's ever said about KotOR II and shown that he has a completely different conception of the game to those of us in the real world. So I've yet to see a credible reason for why the quote about Revan refers to KotOR II as we know it, and not Drew's imaginary version, other than your whinging and whining about how "it's canon, and you're denying it!"
Firstly, you can't "reject" a source, lmfao.
Secondly, the reasons of your "rejection" aren't even legitimate.
Your point is genuinely and truly rendered false the instant you even mutter it. There's no debate. There's no discussion. You are factually and objectively wrong - I, unsurprisingly, am factually and objectively right.
The only individuals who will ever adopt your theory are those whose career is consumed by denial - Nephthys, WollfMyth, etc.
There's no reason to argue the point. It's inherently wrong.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Firstly, you can't "reject" a source, lmfao.
Just like you can't reject Bastila being on par with Dooku and Obi-Wan? Or that Dooku was almost on par with Yoda, with the latter having only a slight edge over the Count?
And if it helps, don't think of it as me "rejecting" the source. Just correcting the fact that Drew's quote applies to his incorrect, fan-edited version of KotOR II, not everybody else's.
Secondly, the reasons of your "rejection" aren't even legitimate.
What a convincing argument. Perhaps you could time-travel back to the 30's and convince Hitler not to commit any of his atrocities? I'm sure he'll be swayed by your claims that you're factually and objectively right whilst everybody who disagrees with you is some fraudulent idiot.
The only individuals who will ever adopt your theory are those whose career is consumed by denial - Nephthys, WollfMyth, etc.
Wollf is consumed by denial? He's waged a several-month long anti-KotOR II campaign and it's only been recently that he's begun to agree with me on KotOR II. Heck, even Syn, who's friends with you and bitterly opposed to me and all things KotOR II, isn't in agreement with you here.
Your point is genuinely and truly rendered false the instant you even mutter it. There's no debate. There's no discussion. You are factually and objectively wrong - I, unsurprisingly, am factually and objectively right.There's no reason to argue the point. It's inherently wrong.
The last time somebody was this wrong was in 1939 when someone walked out of a plane in Britain waving a piece of paper and declaring that there'd be no war.
If we're dismissing the Revan novel becuz of Drew being in magical fairy land or whatever, then why not dismiss the feats of KOTOR II because Avellone is in some magical fairy land where the Force itself is inflated (he thinks most of the ancient Sith are powerful enough to drain planets and that most of these guys are beneath Vader)?
You open a whole different set of issues once you pull this source ignoring shit.