Valkorion vs. UnuThul (TP battle)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
UnuThul issued a (telepathic) call across the galaxy that a large number of Jedi felt and found enticing. However, many were able to resist his call.

Jacen Solo was not able to resist the call initially but he managed to develop a countermeasure against it at a later stage. UnuThul eventually realized at some point that Jacen had become immune to his telepathic abilities.

Because that call was much like what Kaan, Luke or Krayt did. It's not a direct mental domination. The fact that they found it enticing regardless just proves even passively Unu'Thul is a telepathic powerhouse.

When 'Thul sets his sights on someone, even Luke isn't completely safe. So breaking the Outlander really doesn't compare to almost breaking Skywalker.

Valk himself admits that he COULD NOT break the outlander on his own. He was only able to do this with the help of vaylin' spirit,

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, that was a statement from the SWTOR website I think. Something about him "entering the mind of his most powerful foe."

He made that decision before his son's betrayal, so I'm not sure Arcann is included in that evaluation. If he was, then Arcann must have grown in power over the following years, because there's no way BoKOTFE Outlander > Emperor Arcann.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He made that decision before his son's betrayal, so I'm not sure Arcann is included in that evaluation. If he was, then Arcann must have grown in power over the following years, because there's no way BoKOTFE Outlander > Emperor Arcann.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is a terrible argument.

UnuThul issued a (telepathic) call across the galaxy that a large number of Jedi felt and found enticing. However, many were able to resist his call.

Jacen Solo was not able to resist the call initially but he managed to develop a countermeasure against it at a later stage. UnuThul eventually realized at some point that Jacen had become immune to his telepathic abilities.

Resistance to Telepathic powers is a learning experience and a matter of willpower. Raw power is not much of a factor in this case.

UnuThul wasn't the only Telepath who could break Luke Skywalker, Lord Nyax could as well. This implies that Luke has an element of doubt in his mind or some kind of innate fear that can be his weakness.

It is really stupid to underestimate Valkorion in this area. Telepathic powers I aren't infallible but Valkorion's are as good as they can get.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I see, you could argue outlander>arcann based on how they fared vs vaylin unleashing all her power

That's KOTET Outlander, entirely different animal.

Yea. It would suggest that the outlander has significantly better potential than arcann

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Valk himself admits that he COULD NOT break the outlander on his own. He was only able to do this with the help of vaylin' spirit,

I only just noticed this, but you're way off, Valkorion as a spirit had limited use of his powers. When the Outlander consumes Vaylin (and Arcann if you're dark side), he is empowering Valkorion's weak spirit. He bides his time for the Outlander to take the Throne and then completely dominates her in Force and Telepathy.

It took Lord Dramath, Arcann, Vaylin, Senya, and the Outlander with the Uber Holocron to defeat Valkorion in the Outlander's mind and release her.

That's ridiculously strong telepathic prowess for a weakened spirit.

The battle does take place in the Outlander's mental space, but I find it hard to call it a telepathic showing.

I'm more referring to all of the domination he performs over their spirits and such.

Ah, true.

As I recall, the Outlander survives Valkorions attempt at domination and goes on the counter-attack purely on her own merits. Although it does take a combination of forces to defeat him, the Outlanders will proved very much capable of withstanding and gaining ground against Valkorions attempts to snuff her out.

He thinks he cast her mind into the abyss, but the Outlander used the loophole of assuming Valkorion's form as Valkorion himself assumed the Outlander's. He says it was an oversight he won't repeat and then summons Vaylin (and Arcann) in spiritual form, but the Outlander has the Dramath Holocron and breaks Valkorion's domination of their spirits.

Doesn't summoning Vaylin prove that he couldn't do the job himself? He had to wait until after he absorbed her spirit in order to beat the Outlanders mind, as he himself admits. You say he was merely replenishing his own power but I'm not sure of how much I buy that. Valkorion consistently fails to or is unable to beat the Outlanders will, even when they're in a coma.

He also says in KotFE that the Outlanders will is equal to his. Surviving his attack despite almost losing everything is suggestive of the Outlanders immense mental fortitude imo.

Except the entire point is that he was killed by Arcann and cheated death by surviving in a comatose Outlander. He didn't have the power left to do much of anything, knowing this he purposefully forges the Outlander into a vessel of supreme power capable of withstanding his power.

As seen in KOTFE, if the Outlander allows Valkorion to attack Arcann, he uses the Outlander's connection to the Force but the power is clearly overwhelming her ability to sustain him. Even if it's Nox, whose entire being and spirit is designed to sustain massive power.

So when the time comes for the Outlander to take the Eternal Throne, Valkorion switches his power source from the Outlander herself to Vaylin's spirit(and Arcann depending on choice), therefore providing himself with a source of power to dominate an uncooperative Outlander.

Wow, KOTET really became a garbled pile of nonsense didn't it?

Originally posted by AncientPower
I only just noticed this, but you're way off, Valkorion as a spirit had limited use of his powers. When the Outlander consumes Vaylin (and Arcann if you're dark side), he is empowering Valkorion's weak spirit. He bides his time for the Outlander to take the Throne and then completely dominates her in Force and Telepathy.

It took Lord Dramath, Arcann, Vaylin, Senya, and the Outlander with the Uber Holocron to defeat Valkorion in the Outlander's mind and release her.

That's ridiculously strong telepathic prowess for a weakened spirit.

You mean after valk had taken control of the outlander's body(thanks to being amped) thus no longer being a disembodied spirit and when vaylin, and the outlander and co were disemobdied spirits?

I find it hard to believe he had less power than a Smuglander in carbonite, or with how weak they were upon leaving it. Or after getting stabbed by Arcann or at any other point in the series. We see that he still wields immense power if you unleash him against Arcann, far more than the Outlander does.

I mean sure but he can just forge the Outlander after taking over the body. Valkorion himself was a body he just stole and hollowed out. He only needed to wait until getting Vaylin because he couldn't do it himself.

The power isn't the important thing imo, its simply that the Outlanders mind is too strong for him to dominate without an edge. This doesn't diminish Valkorion at all, it just means the Outlander has Revan tier willpower.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wow, KOTET really became a garbled pile of nonsense didn't it?

It's actually the highpoint of the game imo. I know you don't consider that very high but imo it was quite good. Probably the best ending to a game Bioware has had since...... ME1?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except the entire point is that he was killed by Arcann and cheated death by surviving in a comatose Outlander. He didn't have the power left to do much of anything, knowing this he purposefully forges the Outlander into a vessel of supreme power capable of withstanding his power.

As seen in KOTFE, if the Outlander allows Valkorion to attack Arcann, he uses the Outlander's connection to the Force but the power is clearly overwhelming her ability to sustain him. Even if it's Nox, whose entire being and spirit is designed to sustain massive power.

So when the time comes for the Outlander to take the Eternal Throne, Valkorion switches his power source from the Outlander herself to Vaylin's spirit(and Arcann depending on choice), therefore providing himself with a source of power to dominate an uncooperative Outlander.

Assuming valk can mentally dominate the outlander because his spirit couldn't is a very unconventional line of reasoning