What is the appeal of Darth Vader ?

Started by Kurk10 pages

Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin's actions throughout the film support this not just the Windu scene.

So if you agree he's conflicted then you concede he's still account alr no matter what personality is manifesting. The good guy turned and the bad guy turned back at the end. I never contested him being conflicted. That's what makes him weak.

In the end despite the path he chose he was weak. Not everyone would react in the same manner as he did. He deserved the shit he got because he made poor choices.


I've been thinking about what you said about Anakin and Vader being the same person, thinking about the one example in the canon book Lords of the Sith where he tries to save a little girl from being unnecessarily killed by Sidious. An irrational decision like when he sliced Mace's hand which nearly got him severely punished to say the least. Clearly Quanchi is correct in some regard to Vader being irrational, even in his post RotS age.

"Before either of them could answer, a green-skinned Twi'lek girl, perhaps in late adolescence, emerged from the underbrush. She wore a weathered rain parka and had a long-barreled, Clone Wars-era blaster pistol on her hip. Field gear stuck out of her backpack. The end of a carved wooden tube, almost like a musical instrument, stuck out of the pack, too. Seeing Vader and the Emperor and Deez, her big eyes widened and her lekku twitched, but to her credit she didn't run.

Deez started to level his rifle but Vader grabbed the guard's arm, halting him. That seemed to put the girl a bit less on edge, though she looked ready to bolt if she needed to. Vader sensed more curiosity in the girl than fear.

"Who are you?" Deez asked.

"Who are you?" the girl responded, her accent so thick that Vader found it hard to understand her at first. "What are you doing out here? Are you lost?"

The girl apparently did not recognize the Emperor or his companions. She must have been from one of the remote settlements that were known to dot Ryloth's wilderness.

"Come here, girl," the Emperor said, putting the power of the Force into his command.

Unable to resist, the girl walked out of the tree line until she stood, small and vulnerable, before him.

With preternatural speed the Emperor drew, ignited, and slashed at the girl with his lightsaber, but Vader had sensed his Master's intent and moved with greater speed, igniting his own blade and intercepting his Master's blow before it could land.

The girl, under the sway of the Emperor's power, seemed scarcely to notice the danger. She simply stood there, staring vacantly, her face aglow in the red light of the crossed blades.

The Emperor's mouth twisted in a snarl, and Vader felt his power gathering.

Behind Vader, Deez raised his rifle and aimed it at Vader's back, but Vader stretched his free hand back and unleashed a blast of power that lifted the guardsman from his feet and flung him into the trees. Branches cracked audibly under the impact of Deez's body.

Vader and his Master stared at each other across the sizzling glow of their crossed blades.

"Has it come to this?" his Master said. He sounded calm, almost resigned, but not at all surprised.

The tone surprised Vader. "Forgive me, Master," he said, and deactivated his blade. "I think the girl can be of use to us."

"Do you?" the Emperor asked softly. "

Canon Vader is definitely softer than his legends version. Before this, Vader failed to make my top 10 favorite SW character list. Anakin still remains as my number 2 or even 1, but that's mainly due to his depiction in TCW where we seem him as being less unlikable compared to Rots and AotC. Vader is a complete tool

He was an emotionally weak person his entire life. That being said I do not want redemption for Kylo Ren. He needs to remain true to himself till the end.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Srs answer tho, it's simply because...

He's fabulous. 👆

originally I liked him because of ESB; he took absolutely no shit from anybody and casually killed people that didn't live up to standards, even in ANH he wasnt about to take any shit from any officers who didn't respect the Force...He became a bit of a pussy in ROTJ but it was somewhat understandable because he found out he had a son, I think that would **** with anybodys emotions. Overall I liked how he was portrayed in the OT but he didn't really have anybody to show his true strength against in combat and thats a shame.

Anakin on the other hand I hated until TCW and ROTS, his characterization in TCW especially made him int a badass heroic guy would you could really root for, his fall in ROTS was a bit lame but again understandable that he'd want to protect the ones he loved and actually made his turn in ROTJ that much more cohesive and believable. He was a great warrior who actually got to show of his skills and that was greatly appreciated and went a long way IMO. His brotherly relationship with Obi Wan was especially good and once he turned he was full of rage and awesomeness.. Too bad eps 1 and 2 made him insufferable.

Originally posted by Kurk
I don't disagree with most of that. Yes Anakin was extremely arrogant and entitled. That doesn't mean he wasn't mistreated by the council. Anakin's naiveness and arrogance plays a role for the end result, but that's not all to it. He does accept responsibility for his arrogance and entitlement as shown during the last pre-Mustafar scene between himself and Kenobi when he apologizes:
YouTube video

He may be flawed, but he cites the council as being a source for his behavior and has enough decency to apologize to Obi Wan.

His positive demeanor in TPM despite him being a slave suggests that he was an inherently good character. Anakin faced quite a few challenges in his lifetime; slavery, having his mother die in his arms, having Ahsoka leave him, having his wife cheated on by Clovis, etc. These are not excuses, but rather factors which better explain why Anakin acts the way he does.

You cite moments from AotC when we see Anakin at his worst in terms of attitude and behavior, but when I cited Kylo Ren's similar behavioral flaws you stated that he still relatively young and will mature with time. So you would agree with me in saying that like Kylo Ren should, Anakin matured, regardless of how little it was, from AotC to RotS to Rebels era, correct?

Sidious is a creepy old man? Anakin doesn't believe him clearly here because he says he's going to turn him in. Only after Sidious demonstrates his power does Anakin turn.
YouTube video

I don't think the Jedi really mistreated Anakin per se but they were certainly blind to his struggle and their archaic views on love were definitely against the natural order of things and most importantly against Anakins viewpoints on loyalty and love for others. The scene where Anakin confides in Yoda looking for answers on how to save his wife and Yoda telling him to learn to let go is the point where the Jedi truly lose Anakin for good IMO; he went to the wisest of them all and all he got was "don't worry kid, the Force will take care of this, let her die".

Heres the scene with Yoda and Anakin for those that don't recall it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJyf5yKxuo

Originally posted by relentless1
originally I liked him because of ESB; he took absolutely no shit from anybody and casually killed people that didn't live up to standards, even in ANH he wasnt about to take any shit from any officers who didn't respect the Force...He became a bit of a pussy in ROTJ but it was somewhat understandable because he found out he had a son, I think that would **** with anybodys emotions. Overall I liked how he was portrayed in the OT but he didn't really have anybody to show his true strength against in combat and thats a shame.

Anakin on the other hand I hated until TCW and ROTS, his characterization in TCW especially made him int a badass heroic guy would you could really root for, his fall in ROTS was a bit lame but again understandable that he'd want to protect the ones he loved and actually made his turn in ROTJ that much more cohesive and believable. He was a great warrior who actually got to show of his skills and that was greatly appreciated and went a long way IMO. His brotherly relationship with Obi Wan was especially good and once he turned he was full of rage and awesomeness.. Too bad eps 1 and 2 made him insufferable.

👆

Originally posted by relentless1
I don't think the Jedi really mistreated Anakin per se but they were certainly blind to his struggle and their archaic views on love were definitely against the natural order of things and most importantly against Anakins viewpoints on loyalty and love for others. The scene where Anakin confides in Yoda looking for answers on how to save his wife and Yoda telling him to learn to let go is the point where the Jedi truly lose Anakin for good IMO; he went to the wisest of them all and all he got was "don't worry kid, the Force will take care of this, let her die".

Heres the scene with Yoda and Anakin for those that don't recall it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVJyf5yKxuo


Not to mention it completely portrayed the jedi as being sociopathic individuals devoid of any feeling.

Originally posted by Kurk
Not to mention it completely portrayed the jedi as being sociopathic individuals devoid of any feeling.

Devoid of any feeling....so then what was happening to Yoda and Obi-Wan later on?

Originally posted by Kurk
Not to mention it completely portrayed the jedi as being sociopathic individuals devoid of any feeling.
No, they weren't. You're lost. Either you're lying or stupid. Which is it ?

Vaders appeal to people is just like boobs appeal to people. U might not be able to explain why u love them so much, you just do, and if u dont love them then you're probably gay.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Vaders appeal to people is just like boobs appeal to people. U might not be able to explain why u love them so much, you just do, and if u dont love them then you're probably gay.
Fat, saggy **** that is all they can get. You poor Vader fans. It's all you have. Enjoy the number Gravity has done to them.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Devoid of any feeling....so then what was happening to Yoda and Obi-Wan later on?
then they are hypocrites. "mourn them do not, miss them do not...train yourself to lose all you care for"
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they weren't. You're lost. Either you're lying or stupid. Which is it ?

what?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Fat, saggy **** that is all they can get. You poor Vader fans. It's all you have. Enjoy the number Gravity has done to them.
why so bitter all the time? Vaders a fictional charatcter. Love him or hate him, i dont care. It makes no difference to me.

Also I find your assertion that vader fans can only get saggy breasted women a bit dubious. I'm sure there are at lesst a few out there that can snag a perky, firm breasted lady.

Originally posted by Kurk
then they are hypocrites. "mourn them do not, miss them do not...train yourself to lose all you care for"

what?

Acting like the Jedi were sociopathic and didn't care is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts. Are you this dense or is this another act ? You've already demonstrated this attention seeking behavior in the past.

Originally posted by Raptor22
why so bitter all the time? Vaders a fictional charatcter. Love him or hate him, i dont care. It makes no difference to me.

Also I find your assertion that vader fans can only get saggy breasted women a bit dubious. I'm sure there are at lesst a few out there that can snag a perky, firm breasted lady.

I am not bitter I am quite happy insulting Vader fans.

I made an analogy to counter your analogy. He's used up, he's a shell of himself so naturally hits **** would sag.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not bitter I am quite happy insulting Vader fans.

I made an analogy to counter your analogy. He's used up, he's a shell of himself so naturally hits **** would sag.

Hey, if that what does it for you, then all the power to you. Though im not too sure how your statement would qualify as an analogy. At least not under any of the definitions that im aware of.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy

Originally posted by quanchi112
Acting like the Jedi were sociopathic and didn't care is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts. Are you this dense or is this another act ? You've already demonstrated this attention seeking behavior in the past.
so what are the facts?

Originally posted by Raptor22
Hey, if that what does it for you, then all the power to you. Though im not too sure how your statement would qualify as an analogy. At least not under any of the definitions that im aware of.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy

Reread the thread and pm me an apology as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by Kurk
so what are the facts?
The Jedi weren't sociopathic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Jedi weren't sociopathic.
based on?