Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Plagueis' rating, in my opinion, relies on whether or not you take novel blurbs at fave value.Without the blurb, Plagueis is clearly below Vitiate as far as accolades and feats goes, and Revan can easily be argued as being his combative superior.
Still waiting on how unbalancing the Force itself and presenting a cosmological threat sufficient to necessitate the immaculate conception of the Chosen One, .i.e. space Jesus, is below one-shotting powerhouses like Darth Marr.
Even if you don't think Plagueis is super powerful, to not give this to team 2, you'd have to conclude that RotS Sidious >>>>>>> EoTPM Sidious, even though he spent most of his time sitting on his ass as Supreme Chancellor. You know how many hours high-level government officials work, right? Where do we get this massive power leap from?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where do we get this massive power leap from?
You're new to fiction I see :hmm
Power ups and rate at which they occur have no rhyme or reason to them in just about any series I've ever read/watched/played
It'd be nice to try pinning some semblance of real world progression to plot power ups, but that's about as nonsensical as this hobby *shrugs*
@Elm: Except, he didn't unbalance the Force solo. The corruptness of the Republic also had a role in the imbalance, [which sources have partially credited/implied] he also had help from Darth Sidious and they acclomplished it through months of intense meditation and rituals. It isn't really combatively quantifiable, or applicable.
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Power ups and rate at which they occur have no rhyme or reason to them in just about any series I've ever read/watched/played
Saying that a power leap *could* have happened =/= providing us with evidence that it actually did.
In either case, the first part of my post went conveniently unanswered.
Plagueis presented a cosmological threat to the Force
Valkorion...can kill Darth Marr with lightning
Even if we're ignoring proxies for raw power and looking exclusively at direct combat feats, a heavily injured, pre-prime Plagueis can vaporize half a dozen soldiers with uncharged telekinesis, while Valkorion can...um...kill some pilots with his lightning.
Yeah, Plagueis wins.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even if you don't think Plagueis is super powerful, to not give this to team 2, you'd have to conclude that RotS Sidious >>>>>>> EoTPM Sidious, even though he spent most of his time sitting on his ass as Supreme Chancellor. You know how many hours high-level government officials work, right? Where do we get this massive power leap from?
Why would we conclude that, when Sidious isn't even > Revan?
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
@Elm: Except, he didn't unbalance the Force solo. The corruptness of the Republic also had a role in the imbalance, [which sources have partially credited/implied]
As opposed to when Vitiate only had the benefit of the Republic getting nearly wiped out several times, the Jedi Order being purged, an eldritch sith lord literally trying to eat the Force, etc.
he also had help from Darth Sidious and they acclomplished it through months of intense meditation and rituals.
Vitiate had a thousand years with the help of a powerful nexus, the Dread Masters and an entire Empire of sith, and all he could do was make a few lightning storms.
It isn't really combatively quantifiable, or applicable.
It's a useful proxy for raw power. Regardless, Valkorion doesn't have any combat feats that involve beating opponents on the caliber of Plagueis.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your case is predicated on that, given that we can otherwise do some powerscaling from RotS Sidious.
I'm not making a case and was arguing the semantics of one part of your post?
This is kind of novel, haven't encountered tunnel vision like this in a while :hmm
EDIT - Do admit I'm not exactly the easiest person to follow along with though *shrugs*
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate never attempted to unbalance the Force. So it's kind of stupid to act as if him not doing so is a mark against him.
Let's not pretend you never use Vitiate feats that the other side doesn't have for lack of opportunity. The point is that where Vitiate focused his energies, it wasn't as impressive.