Ood Bnar Comparison: DE Luke vs Kun

I thought I'd come back here, as while it was a valid attempt to lowball Kun, the amount of superficial propositions make it it a flimsy comparison; if that. Ant summarised it well, there's little parity in the examples you used and that's obvious given the petty details being squabbled over - wether Kun having a slightly disgruntled expression on his face means that he's suffering from an imagined injury. But it's really a testament to how poor some of these comparisons are when most of these accessory specifics can be debunked as well.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's a grimace yes, well done.

Though in this instance, Kun's eyes are also closed

So this is an indirect concession and admittance that a slightly cumbersome facial expression doesn't have to represent a stack of non-existent injuries? I agree, and in any case, Ulic seems to have an even more contorted expression than Kun in that picture. Really, this example is more comparable with the face we're seeing in that panel :

So, again, pretty much a neutral expression that isn't denoted for any woes of pain. Compare that to Kun receiving a fairly superficial scar from sylvar and the differnce manifests itself in the most most audacious way possible. There's an overflowing theme with Tales of the Jedi in that the emotions are very picturesque and distinguishable. When a character is experiencing pain, even for superficial injuries, their facial muscles will be sure to reflect that pain with vivid animation. Now you might gripe at Kun's inability to handle pain, but if anything, it's an outright testimony to how little Bnar's metamorphosis affected him; leaving him completely unharmed, so all your argument rests on this : Kun sucks because he was knocked over, like a multitude of powerhouse-characters before him.

I don't sorry

You do, and you do it without even realising. You're lying to try and save some sort of credibility to this case; and what little there is left of it.

and actually, its pretty common for people to walk up stairs without using a banister.

That is factually wrong. There are actually massive sample studies based on observations of public stairwells and escalators that prove how common people will use the handrail. Why would you make a statement like this when 99% of the time, the opposite is true?

Do you know why people instinctively use a support when it's there? It isn't a learned behaviour, it's because mother nature decided that after several million years of evolution, humans would eventually walk upright on two legs. The disadvantages being that we had less stability, and were easier to knock over, but could compensate by using our arms to balance ourselves. That's why as soon as someone steps on an escalator, they will put their hand on the rail, because the very first step alters the centre of gravity. Unless you want to argue that all the people above are having difficulty standing upright, needing to "clutch a support', as the exact phrasing in the previous post. The same can be observed when someone falls over - they will instinctively use their arms to right themselves, and if there's an elevated support right next them, they will lean on it. Meaning that Kun placing his hand on a piece of shattered floor is not a sign of impaired stability. Anyway, that is the in-universe explanation for why Kun, as a bipedal homo sapient, would inadvertently place his hand on a ledge to lift himself up after falling over. If you're going to scoff at the - rather valid - reason behind that explanation, and would prefer confirmation that the illustrators knew what they were getting themselves into when drawing the scene, then it would be good to educate you on the production of comics. Professional illustrators base their characters, and character movements, on humanoid archetypes, to use correct dimensions and make the chapters as natural as possible, and yes, that even includes hypersonic sword fights based around real world stances and still photographs.

Because it was one panel. But despite that, he was not standing up.

So we're back to Kun sucks because he was knocked on his ass? Are you also going to revaluate your assessment of Sidious on Byss, after being knocked over by Luke?

And yet difficulty can be inferred.

Then why are you failing at inferring it?

When you fail to provide context to each one, you might erroneously conclude that. Otherwise when one grimaces, while using to support to stand up, the inference is that one is struggling to stand up.

Well he's neither grimacing, and he if he is doing it, it's not because he's struggling, and given that 99% of people will inadvertently use a support to stand up after being knocked over, a struggle can not be inferred on based such arbitrary details. If there was some extra narration or visible limping directly after the event, then you might have a point. But everything indicates that's he's left unharmed after the blast.

And when motion lines are added on top of that

Again, this is a conceded point. The motion lines are placed in varying points of the comic to depict movement or nothing in particular. It's as moot and as tired as the rest of the comparison.

If he appeared to be harmed by an observer, then that observer is picking up on all the same pointers I elucidated here, and perhaps more that could not be translated.

Unless he can literally sense injuries after they happen, then there's no proof that Kun is left harmed. All that can be inferred here is that Kun fell over; and his servant naturally went to him. Meaning we're back to Kun sucks because he fell over, much like Darth Vader did against Kanan and Ezra.

Leaving lasting injury is the not the qualifier of pain lol. But naturally there is also fatigue to consider.

Seen as you can't prove Kun is suffering from neither pain or fatigue in that panel, gives us no reason o believe he is.

That Kun failed to absorb Bnar's attack, yeah

You don't even know wether Kun tried to erect a barrier, wether the attack even affected him at all and if it was just the flooring being destroyed underneath him that caused the topple over. All we know is that Kun was put on his as for less than a few seconds. Are you going to tell me that Vader failed to absorb Kanan and Ezra's collective Force push in Rebels because the same happened to him?

Great post. 👆

There is no injury there. Kun's expression is an instinctive anger at being knocked over, as well as anger at his efforts being thwarted.

I would have thought that was obvious.

And there is no version of Luke that is stronger than Kun or that can deal with his Sorcery. Even Luke at his strongest and most experienced, in FOTJ, had no special way of blocking or negating Krayt's draining. And Kun is a lot better at the esoteric stuff than Krayt.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I thought I'd come back here, as while it was a valid attempt to lowball Kun, the amount of superficial propositions make it it a flimsy comparison; if that. Ant summarised it well, there's little parity in the examples you used and that's obvious given the petty details being squabbled over - wether Kun having a slightly disgruntled expression on his face means that he's suffering from an imagined injury. But it's really a testament to how poor some of these comparisons are when most of these accessory specifics can be debunked as well.

So this is an indirect concession and admittance that a slightly cumbersome facial expression doesn't have to represent a stack of non-existent injuries? I agree, and in any case, Ulic seems to have an even more contorted expression than Kun in that picture. Really, this example is more comparable with the face we're seeing in that panel :

So, again, pretty much a neutral expression that isn't denoted for any woes of pain. Compare that to Kun receiving a fairly superficial scar from sylvar and the differnce manifests itself in the most most audacious way possible. There's an overflowing theme with Tales of the Jedi in that the emotions are very picturesque and distinguishable. When a character is experiencing pain, even for superficial injuries, their facial muscles will be sure to reflect that pain with vivid animation. Now you might gripe at Kun's inability to handle pain, but if anything, it's an outright testimony to how little Bnar's metamorphosis affected him; leaving him completely unharmed, so all your argument rests on this : Kun sucks because he was knocked over, like a multitude of powerhouse-characters before him.[/b]

So that is what I will take it to be, a grimace, notwithstanding the undetailed, contextless expression of a random background character, and the bizarre notion that if Kun is not screaming he is not in pain, lmao.

You do, and you do it without even realising. You're lying to try and save some sort of credibility to this case; and what little there is left of it.

That is factually wrong. There are actually massive sample studies based on observations of public stairwells and escalators that prove how common people will use the handrail. Why would you make a statement like this when 99% of the time, the opposite is true?

Do you know why people instinctively use a support when it's there? It isn't a learned behaviour, it's because mother nature decided that after several million years of evolution, humans would eventually walk upright on two legs. The disadvantages being that we had less stability, and were easier to knock over, but could compensate by using our arms to balance ourselves. That's why as soon as someone steps on an escalator, they will put their hand on the rail, because the very first step alters the centre of gravity. Unless you want to argue that all the people above are having difficulty standing upright, needing to "clutch a support', as the exact phrasing in the previous post. The same can be observed when someone falls over - they will instinctively use their arms to right themselves, and if there's an elevated support right next them, they will lean on it. Meaning that Kun placing his hand on a piece of shattered floor is not a sign of impaired stability. Anyway, that is the in-universe explanation for why Kun, as a bipedal homo sapient, would inadvertently place his hand on a ledge to lift himself up after falling over. If you're going to scoff at the - rather valid - reason behind that explanation, and would prefer confirmation that the illustrators knew what they were getting themselves into when drawing the scene, then it would be good to educate you on the production of comics. Professional illustrators base their characters, and character movements, on humanoid archetypes, to use correct dimensions and make the chapters as natural as possible, and yes, that even includes hypersonic sword fights based around real world stances and still photographs.

But why the sudden shift to escalators? I suppose in the event that the ground beneath you is in motion and you are standing still, you might naturally use a support to steady yourself, but in terms of walking up stationary stairs, I'm still going to have to defer to personal experience. In which case no, I do not use the banister remotely 99% of the time. And in fact, neither do those walking up the escalator in your gif. 🙂

In fact to test your hypothesis I started doing so, made me feel like an old man, so is it an early onset of arthritis that leads you to defend the necessity of the banister so vehemently?

So we're back to Kun sucks because he was knocked on his ass? Are you also going to revaluate your assessment of Sidious on Byss, after being knocked over by Luke?

Then why are you failing at inferring it?

Well he's neither grimacing, and he if he is doing it, it's not because he's struggling, and given that 99% of people will inadvertently use a support to stand up after being knocked over, a struggle can not be inferred on based such arbitrary details. If there was some extra narration or visible limping directly after the event, then you might have a point. But everything indicates that's he's left unharmed after the blast.

Again, this is a conceded point. The motion lines are placed in varying points of the comic to depict movement or nothing in particular. It's as moot and as tired as the rest of the comparison.

Unless he can literally sense injuries after they happen, then there's no proof that Kun is left harmed. All that can be inferred here is that Kun fell over; and his servant naturally went to him. Meaning we're back to Kun sucks because he fell over, much like Darth Vader did against Kanan and Ezra.

You don't even know wether Kun tried to erect a barrier

wether the attack even affected him at all and if it was just the flooring being destroyed underneath him that caused the topple over.

All we know is that Kun was put on his as for less than a few seconds. Are you going to tell me that Vader failed to absorb Kanan and Ezra's collective Force push in Rebels because the same happened to him?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Great post. 👆

For the record, Sedriss as that point was also empowered by DE Sidious, it seems. And there's a quote about him apparently being able to defeat DE Luke, although I don't know how seriously I take it.

The quote says that Sedriss could have defeated Luke if it had just been them and their army of dark side elite, not just Sedriss alone.

Ah.

Anyways, he was amped by Sidious. Also, I think the fact that Luke thought of Sidious and Kun as the principally most powerful sources of the dark side that he'd ever encountered as a sign that Kun's above Sedriss. I know that's not really what you're arguing.

Yeah there should be no doubt that he is quite powerful, especially when we consider that Valkorion did to the Outlander, but no not as powerful as Kun.

Originally posted by Unbowed
There is no injury there. Kun's expression is an instinctive anger at being knocked over, as well as anger at his efforts being thwarted.

I would have thought that was obvious.

And there is no version of Luke that is stronger than Kun or that can deal with his Sorcery. Even Luke at his strongest and most experienced, in FOTJ, had no special way of blocking or negating Krayt's draining. And Kun is a lot better at the esoteric stuff than Krayt.