Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, there's no indication that eight years later is referring to the dead animals rather than the shift.That being said, eight years is specifically stated in the second quote I provided.
Darth Plaguieis states there was roughly a eight year gap between the meditation and the Yinchorri Crisis.
To further press the point, my math factored in an additional year of time spent, so even months in the mix doesn't make it null.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Without specified contexts, the reader is expected to assume the given contexts. So there is. And without a specific time frame, months could well add up to over a year. I'm sure at some point your maths will become scuppered.
Beni, I'll put it like this.The second quote states that there is a eight year gap between the shift and events [b]following
the Yinchorri Crisis.If you look back over my math, I factored in the possibility that, by "eight years," he meant "nine years minus a day."
Note that the above is an even more dramatic plus for your argument than throwing in a handful of months in the mix.
Even then, Anakin Skywalker couldn't have possibly been conceived during that time frame. 👆 [/B]
So this essentially appears to hinge on Plagueis' words being accurate. However you've already conceded his fallibility by claiming he was wrong regarding the Chosen One.
That said, assuming your calculations were correct, and we refused the sensible logic that the author made a mistake, the Chosen One was still created to put a stop to the Sith, and the Plagueis novel rules out Sidious doing anything with midichlorians that would warrant such a response. So essentially it changes little regarding Anakin being created to counter their cosmological threat.
Heck it makes them more impressive when you consider the ritual wasn't even necessary for the Force to warrant striking back. 👆
Context is specified.
The fact the first quote is ambiguous is irrelevant because the second one is NOT.
The second quote STATES that it had been eight years since the shift occurred.
This was STATED shortly thereafter the Yinchorri Crisis.
Thus, we have the shift occurring around 41 BBY.
My math factored in the possibility of the meditation happening a day prior to 42 BBY.
With such, I present the foremost possible opportunity for Plagueis to show himself. Plagueis fails to deliver, since Anakin was conceived months prior to that. There is no reason to believe Darth Plagueis is wrong over the ****ing date by two years. That's something *I* can get right. There's a difference between musing over the will of the Force and knowing your ****ing calendar. The fact you're even trying to argue this point is possibly the most pathetic thing I ever seen.
That being established, the point of my post was to debunk the notion that their mental war had anything to do with the conception of the Chosen One. As I elaborated, any theory you can conjure up would be pure speculation. Thus, you're free to say anything you like, but it can't hold any barring in any debate, so I win and you lose.
In other words, I bested you, ILS, Ellimist, Gideon, and everyone else. You've completely lost.
^ Name of story you guys are talking about please.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Your attempts to appeal to common sense fall on deaf ears Ant, considering this entire argument is predicated on the opposite.
Context is specified.The fact the first quote is ambiguous is irrelevant because the second one is NOT.
The second quote STATES that it had been eight years since the shift occurred.
This was STATED shortly thereafter the Yinchorri Crisis.
Thus, we have the shift occurring around 41 BBY.
My math factored in the possibility of the meditation happening a day prior to 42 BBY.
With such, I present the foremost possible opportunity for Plagueis to show himself. Plagueis fails to deliver, since Anakin was conceived months prior to that. There is no reason to believe Darth Plagueis is wrong over the ****ing date by [b]two years
. That's something *I* can get right. There's a difference between musing over the will of the Force and knowing your ****ing calendar. The fact you're even trying to argue this point is possibly the most pathetic thing I ever seen.That being established, the point of my post was to debunk the notion that their mental war had anything to do with the conception of the Chosen One. As I elaborated, any theory you can conjure up would be pure speculation. Thus, you're free to say anything you like, but it can't hold any barring in any debate, so I win and you lose.
In other words, I bested you, ILS, Ellimist, Gideon, and everyone else. You've completely lost. [/b]
And considering the ritual was instrumental to Plagueis and Palpatine proving a cosmological threat to the Force, yes, we can absolutely assume the creation of the Chosen One, whenever that took place, was a direct response to it.
But please, carry on, we all know this is just a distraction to deflect away from your inability to rebut ILS' case.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your attempts to appeal to common sense fall on deaf ears Ant, considering this entire argument is predicated on the opposite.
Beni, it's evident that if this is your only rebuttal to my post, that you actually have no rebuttal. There is a fundamental and distinct difference between suggesting that you know what the will of the Force is, and then stating when an event that that individual partook in took place. The former is dismissed under the basis that certain elements cannot possibly be known. Likewise, an inherent bias is placed in a subject like that. In contrast, knowing when an event takes place has no bias, nor can it be wrong. Likewise, I'm fairly certain Force-sensitives, and especially ones of Darth Plagueis' power, has the ability to easily shift back through his memories to see when an event takes place.
So, to summarize to the viewer, Beniboybling is arguing that my argument is null because Darth Plagueis' memory is bad.
And considering the ritual was instrumental to Plagueis and Palpatine proving a cosmological threat to the Force, yes, we can absolutely assume the creation of the Chosen One, whenever that took place, was a direct response to it.
Ah, but we can't. It couldn't possibly be a direct response because Anakin Skywalker's conception took place before it happened.
But please, carry on, we all know this is just a distraction to deflect away from your inability to rebut ILS' case.
Beni, I don't think anyone would dispute the notion that I completely bested you here.
They might argue that I'm reaching for straws by bringing in years, but there's no debate over who's right when the straws have been grasped.
That being said, this *is* the primary focus of my rebuttal. The only things left to address is Revan's disturbance and resurrection.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Why dear? You threw common sense out of the window when you attempted to make this argument, its only fair I'm permitted to do the same.
Beni, it's evident that if this is your only rebuttal to my post, that you actually have no rebuttal.
Ah, but we can't. It couldn't possibly be a direct response because Anakin Skywalker's conception took place before it happened.Because the Force is bound by time, as opposed to transcending it... ah wait.
Beni, I don't think anyone would dispute the notion that I completely bested you here.How would you be able to tell with your head so deeply thrust up your own rectum?
They might argue that I'm reaching for straws by bringing in years, but there's no debate over who's right when the straws have been grasped.Grasping at straws is right yeah, in which case its the only way you can avoid ILS robbing you of both your manhood and virginity. 👆That being said, this *is* the primary focus of my rebuttal. The only things left to address is Revan's disturbance and resurrection.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Why dear? You threw common sense out of the window when you attempted to make this argument, its only fair I'm permitted to do the same.
This is not a rebuttal.
As it stands, your only "rebuttal" to my argument is arguing that Darth Plagueis doesn't know when the event takes place.
And, frankly, that's not even an exaggeration. That's your literal argument.
I've provided a rebuttal to why this argument is not only wrong, but really pressing the boundaries on what a "rebuttal" is.
So, really, the ball is in your court, but as it stands you have absolutely nothing to counter my math, which is accurate.
Because the Force is bound by time, as opposed to transcending it... ah wait.
You have to prove that the Force created Anakin Skywalker due to this shift, because it could have easily been the shift that took place with Palpatine's ascension, which was even greater. The latter is more supported with other sources since the imbalance ultimately went away with the death of Palpatine. It only grew stronger with the death of Darth Plagueis.
The Yinchorri uprising took place in 33BBY. Plagueis says the ritual occurred 8 years prior. 33+8 = 41BBY...
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In other words, I bested you, ILS, Ellimist, Gideon, and everyone else. You've completely lost.
wat
All I said in this thread was that you've yet to prove that Revan causing a disturbance in the Force is comparable sweeping cosmological imbalance, which was the entire premise of the thread.
Not only have you yet to do so, you've now, in fact, switched your entire approach: rather than elevating Revan's disturbance above, you're now trying to bring Plagueis's ritual down by trying to prove the Chosen One had nothing to do with it?
Spoiler:
That's not you beating me lol.
Gideon, have you been reading this, or did you just read a sentence and decide to jump in? Anakin Skywalker was born 41.9 BBY. The distinction being completely relevant.
When factoring in the additional eight to nine months of being in the womb, you get his conception around 42.7 BBY, which is far before, as you stated, the ritual, which was 41 BBY.
I'm glad you agree.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Why dear? You threw common sense out of the window when you attempted to make this argument, its only fair I'm permitted to do the same.Because the Force is bound by time, as opposed to transcending it... ah wait.
How would you be able to tell with your head so deeply thrust up your own rectum?
Grasping at straws is right yeah, in which case its the only way you can avoid ILS robbing you of both your manhood and virginity. 👆
If it's his anal virginity you're talking about he was robbed of that years ago.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Gideon, have you been reading this, or did you just read a sentence and decide to jump in?
I skimmed, caught your boast, and replied.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anakin Skywalker was born 41.9 BBY. The distinction being completely relevant.When factoring in the additional eight to nine months of conception, you get his conception around 42.7 BBY, which is far before, as you stated, the ritual, which was 41 BBY.
I'm glad you agree.
...Predicated on the assumption that mystical parthenogenesis in a galaxy far, far away requires 8-9 months of gestation and an unwarranted level of temporal exactitude.
Actually, that's not relevant. Again, his birth is .9 years prior to the war. Factoring in the gestation only makes it more brutal against the point.
Even if Skywalker was birthed instantly, which he wasn't, since Shimi stated that she carried him, the math still doesn't work out.
There's no situation where Anakin Skywalker could have been conceived after the meditation began. 👆
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually, that's not relevant. Again, his birth is .9 years prior to the war. Factoring in the gestation only makes it more brutal against your point.Even if Skywalker was birthed instantly, which he wasn't, since Shimi stated that she carried him, the math still doesn't work out.
It's absolutely relevant lol. The years align perfectly; your argument hinges on the months being incompatible and hasn't demonstrated such.
And I never said that she didn't carry him to term; we just don't know if gestation was longer or shorter.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, it doesn't.
Do you mean "No, it isn't" or are we talking about something else?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anakin Skywalker was born 41.9 BBY. The meditation occurred 41.0 BBY.There is almost an entire year gap in between such, even without factoring in the gestation.
41.9BBY is the same year as 41BBY.
And citation needed on the ritual occurring on 41.0BBY and not 41.3BBY or 41.11BBY.
Yeah, and the distinction is completely relevant.
The New Essential Chronology uses two decimals (when necessary) pertaining to battles, and then a 0.5 decimal (when necessary) pertaining to events. As per the fact it lists the Uprising as occurring in 33 BBY without note of a .5 decimal (note that the very next entry is listed as 32.5 BBY), I conclude that it occurred anytime prior to 33.25 BBY, or at the very least prior to 33.5 BBY. With that being established, Anakin Skywalker's birth would have occurred in 41.9 BBY whereas the meditation, at the absolute maximum, is 41.25 to 41.49 BBY. However, under the basis that no decimal is provided at all, I concluded that the exact date is 33.0 BBY, but that isn't necessary for my point to hold.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, and the distinction is completely relevant.The New Essential Chronology uses two decimals (when necessary) pertaining to battles, and then a 0.5 decimal (when necessary) pertaining to events. As per the fact it lists the Uprising as occurring in 33 BBY without note of a .5 decimal (note that the very next entry is listed as 32.5 BBY), I conclude that it occurred anytime prior to 33.25 BBY, or at the very least prior to 33.5 BBY. With that being established, Anakin Skywalker's birth would have occurred in 41.9 BBY whereas the meditation, at the absolute maximum, is 41.25 BBY. However, under the basis that no decimal is provided at all, I concluded that the exact date is 33.0 BBY, but that isn't necessary for my point to hold.
facepalm
You're overthinking this in the extreme and you haven't provided at all the basis for your speculation for assigning specific dates.
Per the text, the Yinchorri uprising took place 33 years before the Battle of Yavin and Plagueis says the ritual occurred 8 years before that.
The sum of those figures is literally Anakin's birth year. 😬