Revan and the Unbalancing of the Galaxy Feat

Originally posted by Beniboybling
A moot point until you can provide some reason for us to doubt Plagueis' perspective. Or explain why the tangible results were somehow just coincidences.

Uh, because it's from a blatantly biased perspective? His word is not canon, nor can he claim to know the actual will of the Force.

Note that, just earlier, you dismissed Savage Opress and Darth Maul from knowing if the Force is actually out of balance. Why the distinction here?

The "tangible results" is literally Palpatine's growing power, which would come about naturally, and Darth Plagueis' increasing mastery over midichlorian manipulation.

Darth Plaguies' increased mastery over the subject came about through years of practice. Note that he then states that they all suddenly died anyway.

And none of that is mutually exclusive, they are mere increments on a preexisting imbalance, all of which were responsible for Anakin.

So you concede that rather than the meditation causing it, a range of factors did? Lmfao, love it.

Your argument is dwindling and dwindling away. Every time you post, something more is snatched away.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, because it's from a blatantly biased perspective? His word is not canon, nor can he claim to know the actual will of the Force.

Note that, just earlier, you dismissed Savage Opress and Darth Maul from knowing if the Force is actually out of balance. Why the distinction here?

The "tangible results" is literally Palpatine's growing power, which would come about naturally, and Darth Plagueis' increasing mastery over midichlorian manipulation.

On the topic of midichlorian manipulation though:

On the same day they had allowed Venamis to die.

Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had resurrected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence and overwhelmed and addled 11-4D's processors, but Plagueis had carried on without assistance, again and again allowing Venamis to die and be returned to life, until the Bith's organs had given out and Plagueis had finally granted him everlasting death.

But having gained the power to keep another alive hadn't been enough for him.

Darth Plaguies' increased mastery over the subject came about through years of practice. Note that he then states that they all suddenly died anyway.

So you concede that rather than the meditation causing it, a range of factors did? Lmfao, love it.

Your argument is dwindling and dwindling away. Every time you post, something more is snatched away.

😂 Will respond tonight. 👆

Let's hope it's a concession.

Alright, champ. Let's have some fun.

The Force conceived Anakin Skywalker to bring balance to the Force.

For a thousand years, the Sith had been sowing chaos, destruction, and imbalance throughout the galaxy:

The current war had been the result of a thousand years of careful planning by the Sith - generations of bequeathing knowledge of the dark side from mentor to apprentice. Rarely more than two in each generation, from Darth Bane forward, Master and apprentice would devote themselves to harnessing the strength that flowed from the dark side, and to making the most of every opportunity to allow darkness to wax. Facilitating war, murder, corruption, injustice, and avarice when - and wherever possible. Analogous to introducing a covert malignancy to the body politic of the Republic, then monitoring its spread from one organ to another until the mass reached such size that it began to disrupt vital systems...

For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it.

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Darth Tenebrous' master revealed the thousand years of growing dark side power as he ripped open the fabric of the Force:

One hundred years earlier, Tenebrous's Twi'lek Master had opened a small rend in the fabric of the Force, allowing the dark side to be felt by the Jedi Order for the first time in more than eight hundred years. That had been the inauguration, the commencement of the revenge of the Sith. And now the time had come to enlarge that rend into a gaping hole, a gaping wound, into which the Republic and the Jedi Order would to their own hazard be drawn...

The rend that Tenebrous's Twi'lek Master had opened in the fabric of the Force had been felt by the Jedi, and already the Order was beginning to show signs of circumspection and languor.

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Palpatine's acension to Dark Lord of the Sith caused a shift in the balance of the Force:

But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification - a gravitic shift.

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The Clone Wars escalated the state of unbalance to a degree that was never before seen by Darth Maul, who would have felt all the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvJiunochio&t=0m25s[/i]

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Likewise during the Clone Wars, the Father's dwindling power escalated to the point that he would soon die:

The Father knew his days were numbered - facing his impending demise, he needed to find another to keep the balance.

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The below quote establishes a direct correlation between the presence of the Jeid in the galaxy and the balance of the Force.

Thus, Order 66 and the Great Jedi Purge would have likewise escalated the unbalance to where it was fully submerged within the dark side:

Yet, despite the Empire's thorough and systematic attempt to erase the Jedi Order from history, the Force works to restore balance, and the Jedi are now poised to return.

All of these factors would have brought about the creation of the Chosen One, since the prophecy, as you agree, would have been accomplished when the unbalance was in its absolute peak.

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Now, I'm going to be generous and assume that Darth Plagueis and Palpatine's meditation was likewise factored in this.

Note that it doesn't matter, since their action was one of many, both in the past and future, that contributed to the Chosen One being birthed when he did.

So really, this notion that Darth Plagueis and Palpatine's meditation had any impact other than an unquantifiable yet small degree is unsupported and wrong.

So no, it's not an unprecedented act. The Chosen One was not birthed as a direct result of it, as I proven with the dates. The Force never even retaliated.

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However, Darth Plagueis and Palpatine's meditation are not only not necessary for the Chosen One's creation, but there's little supporting it even actually occurred.

The element that Plagueis couldn't measure is the will of the Force. The Jedi hear this call, and I believe the Sith do, too. I don't think the Force felt compelled to speak to Plaguieis."

As stated here by Luke Skywalker, and also stated by myself prior to reading this quote, Darth Plagueis can't measure the will of the Force.

Many Jedi were aware of the changes, the drift toward darkness.

Furthermore, Darth Plagueis wrongly assumed the shift was absolute with his meditation, but we know that is not true.

The above sources specify that the unbalancing was a gradual shift, not a sudden move. Likewise, numerous events attribute to this shift.

In reality, the effects of the meditation can be attributed to both coincidence and Anakin Skywalker's growing power.

http://i.imgur.com/JcAQkQs.png

Anakin Skywalker is the ultimate imbalance in Star Wars. The meditation would have been *eclipsed* by Skywalker's growing power and imbalance.

Likewise, all of the events that are cited above are in direct correlation with Skywalker's growing power up until the ultimate eradication of the Jedi in Episode III.

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Thus, the meditation, technically speaking, did next to nothing. Everything it claimed to due could have happened due to other reasons, as cited above.

To attribute anything to the meditation would be complete and utter speculation. Thus, it's not a feat. Darth Plagueis is dead, and so are you. 👆

>Anakin is the ultimate imbalance in the Force

Kill yourself.

It honestly makes far more sense that the dark side gradually built in strength as the Banite Sith have across the generations. It was merely so stifled by how strong the Jedi Order had gotten that it took Tenebrous' master to make it clear to all Force users that the dark side was undergoing a powerful reemergence. The ebb and flow of the balance of the Force. Plagueis and Sidious' war against the Force simply tipped the flow into a flood.

The rise of the Sith has caused similar dark side domination both before and after, both Darth Krayt's One Sith and Darth Revan's Sith Empire have caused such effects.

The Banite Sith could be argued far more effectively and believably if it wasn't so erroneously based on the Unbalancing feat.

My personal stance is that Palpatine's raw power, alongside the reemergence of the dark side and the advancements of the rule of two, did make him the most conventionally powerful dark sider ever. Valkorion on the other hand is a powerhouse based on artificial power growth via rituals and draining.

Essentially, Palpatine is a product of conventional, raw dark side power at its most extreme. Valkorion is a product of esoteric knowledge and Sith sorcery taken to its most extreme. Polar opposites of how one goes about gaining supreme power.

I have them as equals, but I also find stirring the hornet's nest and exposing the ludicrousness of feat wars, a vastly more entertaining enterprise.

If you're asserting that the Force is imbalanced in accordance with the raw power of active dark siders, then Palpatine still represents the culmination of dark side power and still eclipses Valkorion in that regard, simply because the imbalance in his time was greater than anything in Valkorion's entire life. According to your assertion, that would mean that the unprecedented imbalance had to have been perpetuated by Palpatine's unprecedented strength in the dark side.

So it's checkmate for the Valkoriates no matter where they go.

Are you even reading my post?

Indeed I am, and I'm taking the only coherent part of your post and drawing the only conclusion that can be drawn from it.

I like how you're taking my honest opinion and trying to apply it to my argument.

Calm down Nova, you're making no sense and then insulting me for having my opinion.

What happened to 'can't we attack arguments instead of people'? 😂

I'm not insulting anything. I'm saying that the rest of it is incoherent, which it is.

No it is not but you've taken it upon yourself to take it as fully serious part of my argument and then deemed it incoherent because you can't catch the point.

So you don't incorporate your own opinion on things into your argument? I'll keep that in mind. 😂

@AncientPower - You could try rephrasing your point?

If someone didn't understand it, odds are you didn't convey it correctly

That's in my long experience at this stupid hobby anyway *shrugs*

Edit: Oh nvrm, guess they just aren't showing up in post history. Weird..

I make arguments to see how fickle people's positions are, I'm well beyond putting personal stake in my debates. I've had the same opinions for years and they have rarely ever changed.

Do I think Valkorion is more powerful than Palpatine because he can definitively end the galaxy? No I don't, but that's because I believe just because you can make the argument doesn't mean it should be.

Just like I don't believe Dark Apprentice's back cover should legitimately mean that Exar Kun can eclipse Palpatine.

But I make the arguments anyway, hoping at least one or two people realise that an argument that makes itself is not necessarily an accurate one. Just like the Plagueis/Sidious wank, there's a far better way of arguing that. Nor does it need to lowball every other era to get the point across. If people didn't shit on Bane so much, a lot more people these days might have the same perspective.

Ant, none of the quotes you posted in the OP explicitly refer to Revan. They might have been perfectly timed with Revan's revival, but since they don't mention him explicitly, it's just a mere coincidence that the Force was disturbed upon Revan's return. 👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ant, none of the quotes you posted in the OP explicitly refer to Revan. They might have been perfectly timed with Revan's revival, but since they don't mention him explicitly, it's just a mere coincidence that the Force was disturbed upon Revan's return. 👆

Can't say the same about Plagueis and co.

That's a biased, limited perspective, Ant. 😂