Maul (Rebels) vs. Ventress (Legends)

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul was also using a single blade (his preferred weapon the last time he fought was the Saber staff), without even a full handle. He also didn't have time to adjust to his new weapon. At least Ventress's weapon was her own weapon that she uses a lot.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ventress just fought off Anakin and Obi-Wan, and was never truly a match for each of them individually, let alone both of them combined.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/emperordmb/blog/the-teamwork-of-anakenobi-walker-in-tcw/125609/

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Maul was voluntarily giving ground. TPM Novel confirms he was a match for both combatants (even if that isn't strictly Canon now, it's still the closest thing we have to a Canon commentary on that fight).

Ventress just fought off Anakin and Obi-Wan, and was never truly a match for each of them individually, let alone both of them combined.

You bring an interesting point syndicate, but I agree with Thor here; the fact that he gave ground during the fight (I need to rewatch the fight, but I think I may know what part you're talking about) is no indication he's inferior to the duo when the novel suggests Maul is more than a match for the duo's combined skills.

He was skilled, Anakin saw-more skilled, perhaps, than the men he faced.

But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi-Wan was more than his equal in weapons training,

Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate.

So they challenged the Sith Lord quickly, and just as quickly I discovered that their best efforts were not good enough to achieve an early resolution. They settled into a pattern then, working as a team against their enemy, waiting for an opening. But the Sith Lord was too smart to give them one, and so the battle had gone on.

They should have won this battle long ago. Against any other opponent, they would have. But the Sith Lord was battle trained and seasoned well beyond anyone they had ever encountered before. He had matched them blow for blow, and they weren't any closer to winning this fight now than they had been in the beginning.

Meanwhile, Ventress must always flea from confrontations against both Anakin and Obi Wan, and is nowhere (to my knowledge) ever referred to as having parity to the duo.

Edit: *flee

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well okay, if you want to go there, I can't really prove his level of physicality as at Rebels, but he was Ahsoka level in acrobatics at least, and still has those mechanical legs.

Ventress didn't fight SOD Maul. She only fought "Revenge" Maul, and too briefly to draw any kind of conclusion from.

Maul was also using a single blade (his preferred weapon the last time he fought was the Saber staff), without even a full handle. He also didn't have time to adjust to his new weapon (heck he didn't have time to get back into Saber fighting period). But At least Ventress's weapon was her own weapon that she uses all the time. Maul's weapon had been cut.

Maul fought a far better trained Grievous. In any case, I don't see how Ventress's performance was clearly superior.

Maul was voluntarily giving ground. TPM Novel confirms he was a match for both combatants (even if that isn't strictly Canon now, it's still the closest thing we have to a Canon commentary on that fight).

Ventress just fought off Anakin and Obi-Wan, and was never truly a match for each of them individually, let alone both of them combined.

Also so far you seem to be discussing Canon Ventress, not Legends Ventress. Ventress is definitely no match for Maul in Canon. Aside from me not being able to prove Rebels Maul physical level, but I don't see any clear evidence it's deteriorated.

Ahsoka level acrobatics? How so?

You don't think Maul ensured that he was at least able to effectively wield his weapon before going after Kenobi? That's not in line with his character. He wants revenge on Kenobi but he's not stupid.

Granted Grievous would be better trained but that is dependent entirely on the time gap between those two fights. Her performance was clearly superior because she beat him where Grievous and Maul were going back and forth before he BFR'ed him.

Maul voluntarily gave ground to Qui Gon. He attempted to separate the two because he couldn't beat them together. If you can provide the passage that he gave ground to the two of them I'd appreciate it.

Depends on at what point in the war you're referring to.

Ah, I didn't see the Legends up there. Do you want to continue this then?

Maul's musculature has clearly diminished given his dimensions in Rebels not to mention the fact that he's out of his physical prime and thus logically physically weaker when not taking into account augmentation.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not to mention the fact that Maul had just gotten cybernetic legs that were completely different in form from the legs he was used to having, and Savage remarked him growing in power during the period of time after his return.

And you don't think he would have adjusted to the point where he was combat capable before going after Kenobi?

ILS
ILS
ILS

Originally posted by Solar Power
You bring an interesting point syndicate, but I agree with Thor here; the fact that he gave ground during the fight (I need to rewatch the fight, but I think I may know what part you're talking about) is no indication he's inferior to the duo when the novel suggests Maul is more than a match for the duo's combined skills.

Meanwhile, Ventress must always flea from confrontations against both Anakin and Obi Wan, and is nowhere (to my knowledge) ever referred to as having parity to the duo.

Edit: *flee

Maul is definitely more skilled then the two individually. I'm simply noting ( as the quotes you provided do ) that it was Jinn and Obi Wan on the offensive and while they were not skilled enough to achieve an early resolution they were forcing him back. Unless the novel notes otherwise?

She's demonstrated superiority to them both at various points in the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And you don't think he would have adjusted to the point where he was combat capable before going after Kenobi?

For instance, that point is what you're argument is dependent on. Ventress is obviously capable with a single blade since she can still fight, but you're arguing that having one blade isn't optimal for her since she uses Jar'kai.

It's the same thing with Maul except that instead of it being with his armament, it's half of his body.

We don't really know what the adjustment for Maul was like given the legs were fused to his body with Talzin's magic. His body was connected to those prosthetic with the Force.

There's a metric f*ckton of sources stating Maul was > both Jinn and Kenobi at the same time, and that he was having a fun time of fighting them both. One is a factfile literally saying their combined offence is inadequate to defeat Maul with.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
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Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nice argument 🙂

Emp edited.

Originally posted by ILS
There's a metric f*ckton of sources stating Maul was > both Jinn and Kenobi at the same time, and that he was having a fun time of fighting them both. One is a factfile literally saying their combined offence is inadequate to defeat Maul with.

Please provide them.

So what exactly is the case for Ventress winning here?

Well I thought this was composite or canon Ventress.

For Legends Ventress I'd have to rethink the fight and come to a conclusion on it.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Please provide them.

And just to clarify, not one's from a character's perspective unless its Qui Gon or Obi Wan's.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Please provide them.

*Sigh*

ILS encouraging literacy.

Disgusting.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Well I thought this was composite or canon Ventress.

For Legends Ventress I'd have to rethink the fight and come to a conclusion on it.

For canon/composite?

Whichever you think has the best chance.