Darth Plagueis/Palpatine's Meditation War Never Created Anakin Skywalker

Started by DarthAnt6615 pages

Nova: Not what I'm arguing (or trying to convey, at least), but assuming. 👆

I am frankly stunned it is taking them eleven pages to get the point.

Since my views have been completely twisted, I'll explain it again:

Fact: Anakin Skywalker was born prior to the meditation event.

Speculation: The meditation event shifted the Force's balance, and not instead Anakin's growing power.

Speculation*: The meditation event was the reason for Anakin Skywalker's birth, and not the many other significant shifts that would come before or after.

* This is speculation because, since the event occurred after Anakin's birth, it demands conclusive evidence.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I am frankly stunned it is taking them eleven pages to get the point.

No, it's taken eleven pages and Ant still doesn't realize how delusional he is.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He doesn't state the meditation did it, just that they "might" have done it.

That uncertainty extended to Anakin being part of the unbalance, but you mysteriously were fine with saying that definitively. mmm


Whatever the case:

You're horribly naive about the most basic of academic ideas. For example, the scientific method. Literally the entire philosophy of science is based on the idea that we have a bunch of data, and then generate theories to explain that data and make predictions about future data. Those theories will by definition require assumptions; the question then becomes figuring out how to come up with the most plausible ones that best fit the facts (.i.e. occam's razer).

All you've ever managed to do in this discussion is to say that there's a <100% chance that Plagueis and Sidious caused the Force to create Anakin. There's also a <100% chance that the world won't explode tomorrow, but you don't seem too worried about that because you implicitly trust the scientific models we have that make much, much bigger assumptions than the ones we're making right now.

So the real question is whether our model has the best assumptions, and given that we don't need to posit the absurd coincidences that you do, I'd say so.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Since my views have been completely twisted, I'll explain it again:

Fact: Anakin Skywalker was born prior to the meditation event.

Speculation: The meditation event shifted the Force's balance, and not instead Anakin's growing power.

Speculation: The meditation event was the reason for Anakin Skywalker's birth, and not the many other significant shifts that would come before or after.

Fact: The Prophecy was made millennia before Anakin's time.

Fact: Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

Fact: Anakin destroys Palpatine, bringing balance to the Force.

Speculation: Palpatine caused the imbalance in the Force. You know, it might've been Anakin's growing power or something else.

The argument he is making is not what you think it is, not that I necessarily agree.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Since my views have been completely twisted, I'll explain it again:

Fact: Anakin Skywalker was born prior to the meditation event.

Speculation: The meditation event shifted the Force's balance, and not instead Anakin's growing power.

Speculation*: The meditation event was the reason for Anakin Skywalker's birth, and not the many other significant shifts that would come before or after.

* This is speculation because, since the event occurred after Anakin's birth, it demands conclusive evidence.

What other "significant shifts"? I'm hoping these events can be proven to have caused the force to be unbalanced and it's not merely speculation on your part.

@Ellimist: No, I've rejected the notion that there's a >100% chance that Plagueis and Sidious' meditation caused Anakin.

That's the entire point of this discussion.

Originally posted by ares834
What other "significant shifts"? I'm hoping these events can be proven to have caused the force to be unbalanced and it's not merely speculation on your part.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=635850&pagenumber=17#post16001832

Originally posted by SunRazer
Fact: The Prophecy was made millennia before Anakin's time.

Fact: Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

Fact: Anakin destroys Palpatine, bringing balance to the Force.

Speculation: Palpatine caused the imbalance in the Force. You know, it might've been Anakin's growing power or something else.

Agreed. 👆

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Guys, I've been thinking... Maybe we should start considering Revan's defeat of Malak speculation. I mean, if you think about it, we never really see him deal the final blow; maybe Chuck Norris appeared and did it for him, and left before the final cutscene. Not saying that happened, but like, we don't know for suuure... That explanation is as good as any, right? ¯\_( &#12484; )_/¯

Heck, how do we even know that DarthAnt66 is a real person? I mean, I see text appear with his name next to it, but saying that someone must have typed that is just speculation. mmm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Ellimist: No, I've rejected the notion that there's a <100% chance that Plagueis and Sidious' meditation caused Anakin.

That's the entire point of this discussion.

😑 So there's a 100% chance? Or did you word that wrong?

You know the opposition is sweaty when they accidentally agree with you three times in ten minutes.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😑 So there's a 100% chance? Or did you word that wrong?

Fixed. 😬

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You know the opposition is sweaty when they accidentally agree with you three times in ten minutes.

It's almost like typos become common when eighteen people are attacking you and posts are coming out ten per minute. 😬

He is not saying that their meditative war is an impossible factor, only that it is one among many for the birth of the Chosen One. Thus not the sole one.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He is not saying that their meditative war is impossible, only that it is one factor among many for the birth of the Chosen One. Thus not the sole one.

👆

I advise you both to look at the thread title, then read the OP.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Agreed. 👆

So Palpatine didn't cause the imbalance, even though Anakin destroyed the imbalance by destroying Palpatine?

😂

Ant's officially conceded this debate, as well as all past, present and future debates on all topics and thoughts in existence.