Originally posted by Tondemonai
Lmao @ people using this against him. It's not even canon
It's because Neph was using a cutscene from the non-Force sensitive arc or something.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't think anyone could while stunned, yes.Thats kind of what being stunned means.
Uh huh. It's still a pretty lame way to get stunned, by the ship shaking (even though the non-Force sensitive protag was just fine) or by getting pistol whipped.
@Azronger
So they have better Force abilities than average Jedi. Too bad my point was in regards to lightsaber combat.
A glimpse from that battle.
Knights of Zakuul are like Sith Warriors
Scions of Zakuul are like Sith Inquisitors
Got it?
And what exactly would “tons of rock” mean? You can’t prove it’s any bigger than the pile she shoved aside in chapter 16, so this is, as I said, not quantifiable. And therefore irrelevant.
Gravestone is one of the largest Starships in the galaxy; a vessel that big is likely to have mass in the megatonnes range. It was found stuck on the ground, with a part of it buried beneath the surface. Now, two Force-users attempted to facilitate its lift from the ground because its engines failed to achieve the desired result on their own; Senya Tirall and Lana Beniko. It is obvious that each was capable of lifting huge amount of weight from the ground or their contribution would not have made any difference. Do the math.
The whole scene is even more impressive.
1.K’Kruhk pulling down a freighter:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...down+ship+1.png
Clear hint there: "IT'S NOT ME -- IT'S THE CONTROLS"
K'Kruhk was manipulating the controls of that Starship. He did not had the raw power to move, lift, drag or pull a vessel that large. He is no Yoda.
Quinlan Vos dominating K’Kruhk:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...s+k%27kruhk.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...+k%27kruhk2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...+k%27kruhk3.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...+k%27kruhk4.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...+k%27kruhk5.png
Dooku dominating Quinlan Vos:
Your scaling effort is clearly misguided.
2.Anakin Skywalker ragdolling a huge dreadnought:http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...02734-43146.jpg
The size of the dreadnought:
Dooku’s disciples dominating Anakin:http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...45431-54342.gif
http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...79216-54741.gif
Ventress may have been more powerful than Saato or Trenox:
Perhaps Tyranus' most powerful student was Asaji Ventress.
-Star Wars Fact File 116
Dooku dominating Ventress:
He stood tall, imposing, and as Vos raced toward him, Dooku didn't flinch. He lowered his sword and extended his hand. Vos rose in the air and then Dooku shoved, sending the Jedi slamming into one of the pillars. The count turned, almost nonchalantly performing the same maneuver with Ventress. The wind was knocked out of her and she couldn't breathe. Stubbornly, using her hate the way she had taught Vos to do, she summoned energy to to push herself up to a kneeling position, still clutching her lightsaber.
Dooku's lip curled in a manner that might have been a smile or a snarl. Abruptly, Ventress found herself dangling in in the air as he whirled her around behind him and then threw her down like a spoiled child discarding a disliked toy.
The pain was excruciating, but Ventress remained conscious long enough to see that Dooku wasn't yet done. She could only watch helplessly as she slid, headfirst, into the unyielding stone of a meticulously carved bench. Then the world went white, and she knew nothing more.
-Dark Disciple
"Don't patronize me," Asajj said coldly.
Dooku looked around. "Or what?"
Her face went pale.
Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. "Please," she said. "Don't."
"It doesn't feel good, does it? Like sharp stones in your throat and chest." Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. "It's the blood vessels I hate, "Dooku said. "The way they stretch inside like balloons about to pop."
"P-p-p-please..."
"But worse anything is the memories," he said, more softly still. "They crowed around, like flies on meat. Every despicable thing, every petty vice, every little act of spite." A cruel, strange quiet stretched out as Ventress panted on the stone floor. Rain ticked against the window glass, and the Count's voice went dark and far away. "All the things you should have stopped, but didn't, and nothing will ever be right again. And the things you've done," he whispered. "By the pitless stars, the things you've done..."
The comm on Dooku's desk beeped. He shook his head, like a man waking from a dream. "The Troxan delegation is at the door."
Ventress crawled to her feet. Her face was bruised and her cheeks were wet with tears. Both pretended not to notice.-Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
You think that Asajj Ventress was not improving with passage of time? She remained static in her abilities? If Count Dooku really outgunned her by that much margin throughout the course of their co-existence, you would have a point. Unfortunately, this is not true. Not once it is implied that Dooku could crush Ventress without any effort, at a later stage.
3.Kenobi blocking Asajj’s attack:http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...65510-52507.gif
Dooku dominating Kenobi:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...35845-y4Yag.gif
Does Vaylin compare?
First, your scaling effort was terrible. You are concentrating on superficial aspect of events, not the specifics.
1. K’Kruhk caused a Starship to crash by manipulating its controls. An impressive showing on its own but not a valid demonstration of his raw power. Your entire scaling effort collapses on its weight right here.
2. Ventress was improving with passage of time.
3. Anakin Skywalker's effectiveness varied, depending upon his state of mind. There is no consistency in his showings. In one instance, he is better than Yoda; in another instance, he is average.
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi had lackluster defenses. Whenever he came across an opponent with decent Telekinetic abilities and subjected to such powers, he was never able to hold his own. Both Dooku and Darth Maul dominated him with their telekinetic abilities. Even Savage Opress.
Scaling is not your cup of tea, my friend.
Now, I will do some scaling for you:-
Lesser known Jedi and/or Sith in the SWTOR era are capable of incredible showings.
1. An unidentified Jedi Master was able to collapse two buildings (simultaneously) in a confrontation, whom Darth Malgus could kill in a number of ways. Granted that those buildings were damaged by war, it is still a showing that you would expect from a Darth Vader level Force-user.
2. Thana Vesh was able to devastate an entire city block, in a state of anger. There were no survivors in that situation, only she. Even though she became well-known in the Empire by virtue of her powers and exploits, she is still not counted among the most powerful Sith of her time at official capacity.
3. Jedi Master Wyellett was the sole-survivor of a catastrophe in space, purely on the basis of his strength. He was actually renowned for his powers and was credited for defeating Darth Baras in single combat. Guess who bested him? the Sith Warrior protagonist.
4. Lord Fulminiss was famous for devastating an entire city with his powers, in a state of anger. Officially, recognized as one of the most powerful Force-users of the Empire as well. Guess who bested him? the Jedi Knight protagonist.
5. First Son was the strongest Child of the Emperor in raw power and abilities, particularly credited for masking the footprint of every single Child in the galaxy and clouding the senses of the entire Jedi Order. Guess who bested him? the Jedi Consular protagonist.
Granted that the referred protagonists were/are among the most powerful Force-users in the galaxy, and even history. But each is below Vaylin and/or Arcann. One of the protagonists is the Outlander, and he is being officially touted as the most powerful foe of Valkorion. Therefore, we are looking at Revan TIER individuals here who in turn is easily Yoda TIER.
Fair enough. Does Senya has any impressive defensive showings, though? If not, I don’t see this as being better than Dooku casually deflecting his own Force lightning that one-shot Asajj Ventress.
I do not know much about Senya's defensive abilities but she is a powerful Force-user. An explosion that could literally vaporize her from existence, should be much more potent than the blast of energy unleashed by Darth Plagueis that nearly atomized some assassins. So we are looking at a manifestation of energy that only the most powerful Force-users in history should be able to tank.
This proved absolutely nothing, lmao. As I said, her methods if accomplishing this are unknown. And it’s not a Yoda-tier feat even if it were accomplished using the Force directly on the Knights. Killing a bunch of fodder is insignificant compared to beating a single powerful one
Vaylin was directly responsible for that carnage. She not just killed a large number of Force-users there but also destroyed scores of Starships (proper Shuttles among them) in the process. No character in the PT era has a comparable showing.
Considering Dooku grew in power after four years, the nexus is irrelevant.
Dooku is really old at that time. He should be in decline, not the other way round. More importantly, he should be at his best in a setting strong in the Dark Side, not the other way round.
Living beings (even Force-users) never grow in power throughout the course of their existence. Sooner of later, aging takes its toll on them. Dark Side practices are specially noted for accelerating the aging process.
And so what if they were corroded? Lol. And yes, he did “chug them like missiles” to the point where the ship exploded into dozens of pieces and “vehicle parts began to fall like rain”:They moved farther into the darkness.
"Keep your focus loose," Obi-Wan warned him in a low tone. "He will come from anywhere when he comes."
"This time I'll be prepared."
"Don't be so confident," Obi-Wan answered. "You probably won't be."
They were nearing the end of the hangar. He sensed it rather than saw it. The corroded vehicles were more numerous now, lined up like dark, giant phantoms.Like phantoms..
Phantoms that move...
Obi-Wan wrenched his gaze away. He could have sworn the ancient ships[Color] [Color=Blue]were moving.
Then he knew.
"This way!" he yelled, as the first vehicle suddenly flipped over. It would have crushed them if Obi-Wan hadn't dashed to the side with Anakin on his heels. He flattened himself against the wall as another vehicle moved, its jagged wing a lethal weapon, capable of slicing them to ribbons. A cruiser suddenly zoomed toward the wall, straight at them.
"Drop!" Anakin and Obi-Wan hit the floor, hugging the stones as the cruiser passed over them and smashed into the wall.
Vehicle parts began to fall like rain. The crashes were deafening. They leaped, twisted, and dived to avoid them, using the Force to deflect them when they could. Finally they came to rest in the shadow of one of the giant statues. Obi-Wan leaned against a clawed foot and squinted into the darkness.
He could not see the Sith, but he felt the Sith's amusement, his triumph.
The vehicles now smashed into one another, creating a solid mass of screaming metal, effectively blocking them from the front of the hangar.
Anakin ran to the mountain of metal and tried to climb over it. Obi-Wan felt the dark side rise in a crest and then fall, leaving a vacuum behind.
"It's no use," he told Anakin. "The Sith is gone."
-Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown
It does makes difference if the Starships are corroded; it implies loss of their durability and weight over time.
Now, see the highlighted parts of the revelation above. Dooku was not lifting them and/or chugging them like missiles towards his subjects, he was shoving them towards the direction of his subjects, one at a time. They shattered from collision with each other and walls. Dooku was not ripping them apart either.
Now, let us look at the specifics of Valyin's showing of similar nature:-
1. The Starships were in good (functioning) condition. The Knights of Zakuul were using them.
2. The setting was neutral: Ord Mantell.
3. Vaylin not just shove the Starships around, she literally tore them apart (proper Shuttles among them).
Vaylin's showing is clearly superior to that of Dooku, all specifics considered.
Show me the feat and we’ll see.
He did:Soara cried out. Anakin felt the moment spin out into impossible time, time that froze everything, even his heart.
He saw the blue shimmersilk move like a breeze as Zan Arbor took advantage of the distraction to dash for the entrance. Blue Force-lightning erupted in the darkness, a barrier shielding her from the others, giving her space to run.
-Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown
That is just Force lightning.
If this is your only response it might as well be your concession. I ask again: Has Vaylin done any of the things Dooku has?
Vaylin have superior showings than Dooku in all spectrums where they can be directly compared.
I don't recall Vaylin using Force lightning by the way.
Originally posted by MythLordThey don't actually. K'kruhk just manipulated the controls.
And for K'kruhk: the co-pilot thinks it's the controls of the ship, but in reality the editor and the writer confirm K'kruhk brought it down via strength of the Force. And you don't need to be Yoda to manipulate ships, lmao.
Originally posted by MythLord
And for K'kruhk: the co-pilot thinks it's the controls of the ship, but in reality the editor and the writer confirm K'kruhk brought it down via strength of the Force. And you don't need to be Yoda to manipulate ships, lmao.
The scans are telling a different story.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous takes place in 19BBY, shortly before RotS. Dooku's dominating Ventress by then.For Canon, he dominates her in Dark Disciple, which also takes place in 19BBY.
Then it is just like Palpatine catching Count Dooku in his invisible grip in one instance.
Dooku was on a nexus and he attacked her while she wasn't defending herself, mid-conversation and in such a way as to debilitate her to the point of not being able to resist. As seen in the Savage fight, he clearly can't dominate her that easily in a normal situation.
That said, he clearly can dominate her with the Force just not to that extent.
Originally posted by Nephthys
They don't actually. K'kruhk just manipulated the controls.
They do. And no he wasn't.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sorry.The scans are telling a different story.
That story is from a subjective source of a person who has no idea what's going on and wasn't even in charge of the controls. The actually editor and aid of the author, who definitely has more right to the story than you and your head-canon, confirms K'kruhk brought it down.
Originally posted by MythLord
Brought it down through power, I meant. It's essentially confirmed by an out-of-universe, objective source, who worked on the story. That's better than a character who had no idea what was going on, who wasn't even looking at the controls, yelling: "Itz da controlz!"
I will draw my conclusion from the content. Author's opinion is non-canon and non-official.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Authors are hardly reliable and consistent in their point-of-view about such stuff. I can cite numerous examples.I will draw my conclusion from the content.
