Old Master Maul vs. Emperors Wrath II (Lightsabers only)

Started by carthage5 pages

Old Master Maul vs. Emperors Wrath II (Lightsabers only)

Duel takes place on Malachor

Wrath

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrath with ease

Fixed

The Wrath doesn't have any feats above stalemating Ahsoka. In fact, he doesn't have any feats matching that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Wrath doesn't have any feats above stalemating Ahsoka.

wat

Well, in the event that I'm just having a memory lapse, perhaps you could tell me which feats he has which are better than stalemating Ahsoka?

When did he stalemate Ahsoka?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, in the event that I'm just having a memory lapse, perhaps you could tell me which feats he has which are better than stalemating Ahsoka?

Conquering an entire planetary army or killing Yonlach plus Yul-Li, Nomen Karr, Wyellett, Drahag, Sel-Makor, or Darth Baras.

Ahsoka never stalemated Maul anyway, though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Conquering an entire planetary army

Didn't fight them all at once, so that's more of a showing of stamina than straight-up skill.

or killing Yonlach plus Yul-Li, Nomen Karr, Wyellett, Drahag, Sel-Makor, or Darth Baras.

Yonlach isn't much, and Yul-Li is fodder. The others don't have any skill feats that compare with Ahsoka's contending with Vader.

Ahsoka never stalemated Maul anyway, though.

They were about even for a minute. That's good enough for me.

Maul's confirmed to be stronger, anyway.

Originally posted by SunRazer

Yonlach isn't much, and Yul-Li is fodder. The others don't have any skill feats that compare with Ahsoka's contending with Vader.

I think the ease he had in performing said feats speaks to the impressiveness in addition to implied skill. Yul-Li has a lightsaber accolade to his name, being greater than any Yonlach had ever trained, and the Wrath bested them single-handed pre-prime. The Wrath basically toyed with Nomen Karr, and killed Wyelett after killing Xerender and his men, fast enough to escape a collapsing ice cavern might I add. The Wrath killing Draagh multiple times in a row attests to his superiority.

The codex's reference to the Sith Warrior's primary method of attack being lightsaber combat factors in to his victories against Sel Makor and Baras, tho I admit they are still ambiguous showings for the discussion of this contest.

Overall, I agree Ahsoka is arguably superior to the combatants that the Wrath has bested, but this would only matter in comparison if the Wrath shared a parity with his opponents. The Wrath however is clearly superior to these combatants, who all have some tidbits to their name, which is what makes the feats impressive. Only Baras is outright stated to give the Wrath a tough fight, with the Wrath winning in the end anyway, and before any power growth the Wrath would have received in chapters 4 and 5.

Who has Yonlach trained that makes Yul-li look impressive in comparison to?

What's Draagh got his name with respect to skill (other than a few generic accolades)? Nomen Karr has nothing to his name that I know of and Wyelett isn't nearly as good as Ahsoka, as I said.

Baras isn't that good either. His feats consist of not losing to Satele and Angral, which isn't on the same level as being above Ahsoka.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Maul's confirmed to be stronger, anyway.
Wrong.

The Wrath.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Who has Yonlach trained that makes Yul-li look impressive in comparison to?

What's Draagh got his name with respect to skill (other than a few generic accolades)? Nomen Karr has nothing to his name that I know of and Wyelett isn't nearly as good as Ahsoka, as I said.

Baras isn't that good either. His feats consist of not losing to Satele and Angral, which isn't on the same level as being above Ahsoka.

No one in particular, I'm just using inference since his codex entry states Yonlach is considered "the greatest teacher in his time", I'm assuming Yonlach has at least trained some worthy students to earn that accolade.

Hm, not much. It's notable that he had the advantage of both Baras's and Vengean's teachings, noting that Baras held back when teaching the Wrath. He also has this:

As the chosen apprentice of both Baras and Vengean, he possesses a breadth of knowledge and a depth of power few others can claim.

but conceded, he doesn't have much in terms of skill to his name.
Nomen Karr has been stated to be a match for Baras before if I recall, and is stated to be one of the Order's "most veteran masters". I admit, that doesn't really mean much lol.
Wylette and Xerender have also beaten Baras before iirc, Wyelette besting Baras to the point of taking his lightsaber, with Xerender noting Baras was "drained and weaponless". Once again, no real skill feats, but Wyelette has been stated to be stronger than ever, and he had the power to contact Xerender through the force while trapped in an ice cavern. Wyelette surviving years entombed in the ice with no sustenance implies a strong connection to the force to me.

Baras isn't that good? Coming from you how ironic, I found your Baras Respect thread a nice read. But back on topic, being named one of the most powerful sith in the galaxy with his ascension to the Dark Council is pretty good I find, once again nothing outright stated for his skill besides the implied skill one would expect him to have.

Also if we want to mention skill feats, I would like to add that the Wrath killed the Beast of Marka Ragnos single handed, armed with only a sith warblade. The death of said beast causing a tremor in the force. And there's the fact the Emperor's Wrath was stated to have been picked from millions of sith candidates for the position, which while combat prowess may not be the sole factor in determining the position, is still likely to be a notable factor to consider.

Anyway, you've made your point that the Wrath's opponents don't have much in terms of skill to their names, but I have hopefully disproved the notion that they are complete fodder. To reiterate:
* The Wrath's primary form of attack is stated to be lightsaber combat, thus it is logical to presume that that is the method in which he bested most of his foes.
*The Wrath bested most of these foes with noticeable ease. Despite the lack of attributable lightsaber skill to their names, the these foes are by no means fodder. This isn't even counting the numerous nameless Jedi and Sith the Wrath has killed while performing his tasks.

There's probably more Wrath wank that can be pulled up later, so to be continued...

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Wrong.

What's changed since the quote?

@Solar Power - I didn't say they're fodder, just that they're nowhere near as skilled as Ahsoka.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Solar Power - I didn't say they're fodder, just that they're nowhere near as skilled as Ahsoka.

Tru, I meant in general.

When I say "Baras isn't that good", I mean relative to the greats like Vader. He's nothing. There's no way he's contending with Vader like Ahsoka.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What's changed since the quote?
Here, I'll link you to the most recent debate in which the whole "Maul > Ahsoka" notion based on that quote has been thoroughly countered (IMO): http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=635594&pagenumber=2

The gist is that the quote doesn't really suggest that Maul is actually overall superior to Ahsoka, rather that Maul was more opt at handling the Inquisitors because of a multitude of factors and circumstances.

That only calls the quote into question. It doesn't outright disprove the idea that Maul could still be just better than Ahsoka. A lot of the factors there are unknown, such as whether or not the place was a DS nexus.

Also, not too sure how I take Filoni's quote, given that the idea that Ben Kenobi can't match her blow-for-blow, or Maul, is frankly retarded. Also not sure why the Emperor's cited when Yoda isn't. Unless it's referring only to Imperial duelists?