Originally posted by SunRazerThe quote is the sole argument that's been put forth for Rebels Maul being better than Ahsoka.
That only calls the quote into question. It doesn't outright disprove the idea that Maul could still be just better than Ahsoka.
Originally posted by SunRazerClaim ambiguity all you want, but honestly, everything points to Malachor being a dark side nexus, from creator statements to just pure logic.
A lot of the factors there are unknown, such as whether or not the place was a DS nexus.
Originally posted by SunRazerI doubt Filoni would be counting light siders in that quote, in all likelihood he was referring to any potential antagonists to Ahsoka in the era (Palpatine, Vader, Maul, Inquisitors). Plus, if you factor in the high likelihood of Malachor being a nexus, maybe it's not so retarded that Maul can't fight evenly with Ahsoka on neutral ground. I don't think the quote means that Maul would necessarily be incapable of holding his own on neutral ground, but it lends credence to the idea that he's ultimately inferior to Ahsoka.
Also, not too sure how I take Filoni's quote, given that the idea that Ben Kenobi can't match her blow-for-blow, or Maul, is frankly retarded. Also not sure why the Emperor's cited when Yoda isn't. Unless it's referring only to Imperial duelists?
Originally posted by |King Joker|
The quote is the sole argument that's been put forth for Rebels Maul being better than Ahsoka.
Claim ambiguity all you want, but honestly, everything points to Malachor being a dark side nexus, from creator statements to just pure logic.
I doubt Filoni would be counting light siders in that quote, in all likelihood he was referring to any potential antagonists to Ahsoka in the era (Palpatine, Vader, Maul, Inquisitors). Plus, if you factor in the high likelihood of Malachor being a nexus, maybe it's not so retarded that Maul can't fight evenly with Ahsoka on neutral ground. I don't think the quote means that Maul would necessarily be incapable of holding his own on neutral ground, but it lends credence to the idea that he's ultimately inferior to Ahsoka.
The quote is touted as some definitive confirmation of Maul being Ahsoka's superior because he was the 'strongest' of the group, but if you apply the context that they were fighting a specific enemy in which Maul would've logically been specialized to fight against (relative to Ahsoka) it definitely isn't anything spectacular and doesn't prove Maul is better than Ahsoka.
*shrug*
Seems unlikely, given he used the words "time period" which to me is meaning the 'era'.
I still have to respond to Joker/Beni on that topic which will cover a lot of points. To make things short, Pablo Hidalgo already confirmed that Malachor amping Maul, Vader,... was only a possibility so it's obvious that they didn't take the nexus into account when writing the fight scenes for that episode since he would have been able to give a definite answer.
Secondly, Filoni's quote refers to "a time period" which of course is a period of time and not necessarily an era. He's talking about season 2 and why they couldn't Ahsoka very much so why would he generalize a statement if he's only looking at a very specific part of that same statement (= season 2)? Not to mention how in that "era" Ahsoka obviously advanced significally so there's obviously going to be a difference between early era/post Order 66 Ahsoka and the one we see in Rebels yet he's completely neglecting that in his interview?
Third, Joker's idea that Maul was just better equipped fighting the Inquisitors and that's why he was paired with the weakest Jedi (Ezra) in general seems pretty reaching since the quote never mentions or implies as much. Anyway, Joker listed 2 factors (besides the DS Nexus which I already addressed), fighting style and mental state, which would've also explained Maul's superior performance against the Inquisitors. Now we see her fighting Inquisitors in Future of the Force and when going into Twilight of the Apprentice her mental state nor her fighting style change yet her performance does, so it's would be extremely reaching to suggest all of a sudden that those two factors would be important in this fight.
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9Secondly, Filoni's quote refers to "a time period" which of course is a period of time and not necessarily an era. He's talking about season 2 and why they couldn't Ahsoka very much so why would he generalize a statement if he's only looking at a very specific part of that same statement (= season 2)? Not to mention how in that "era" Ahsoka obviously advanced significally so there's obviously going to be a difference between early era/post Order 66 Ahsoka and the one we see in Rebels yet he's completely neglecting that in his interview?
Yeah and Maul was trapped on Malachor throughout that time. And right at the end of the season, she did fight him, and he did match her blow for blow.
And again, Filoni's commentary is fine on particular episodes, but I'm not sure he gets final say on the top most powerful Jedi/Sith in an entire era. Especially when concerning a character we know he's biased towards.
Originally posted by |King Joker|Claim ambiguity all you want, but honestly, everything points to Malachor being a dark side nexus, from creator statements to just pure logic.
Nope. Not confirmed at all, and it might be "logical" to KMC'ers, but apparently isn't so obvious to the creators of Rebels:
1)Pablo Hidalgo himself couldn't answer if Malachor amped Darksiders in combat.
2)The fight between Vader and Ahsoka happened just as Filoni always imagined it. I doubt he always imagined it with Vader getting a dark side amp.
3) If it's such a boost to darksiders, how was Kanan able to get such a massive oneness amp that he could best a dark side amped Maul?
So chances are those fights would have happened pretty much the same way off Malachor. If it is confirmed later to be a place where Dark Siders are stronger, then other explanations will likely come into place to even the odds, e.g. Maul was out of combat practice as he'd been stuck on Malachor for a while, to ensure the fight would stay similar on neutral ground.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A TV season is not a time period, the Emperor was not in Season 2 and he did not say "a" he said "the", that he's referring to the OT era is painfully obvious. facepalm
But the Emperor wasn't trapped away somewhere either.
So fact is he could have shown up anytime during that season. Anything out of that season is out of the context he was giving.
And again, Maul did fight Ahsoka, and he did match her blow for blow. So taking Filoni's words so literally doesn't work. And that's if you honestly think it wise to take his words so literally on 2 characters, one whom he's admittedly biased to, and the other who he'll embarrass by having Blind Kanan beat him without a second thought 😬
So? It would still be bizarre and nonsensical to bring the Emperor into Seasons 2* to fight Ahsoka, and they never planned to do so, why should that be any less a parameter in your contrived reading when these parameters are indeed, entirely made up?
*by the way you may not of noticed, but Maul was actually in that season!
Originally posted by Darth ThorAnd this is cute, considering within the same page you've invoked Filoni's authority on the Ahsoka vs Vader, and elsewhere have done the same regarding Grievous vs Ventress. Double standards much?
And again, Maul did fight Ahsoka, and he did match her blow for blow. So taking Filoni's words so literally doesn't work. And that's if you honestly think it wise to take his words so literally on 2 characters, one whom he's admittedly biased to, and the other who he'll embarrass by having Blind Kanan beat him without a second thought 😬
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A TV season is not a time period, the Emperor was not in Season 2 and he did not say "a" he said "the", that he's referring to the OT era is painfully obvious. facepalmAnyway Maul wins.
Yes it is, it's a period of time and the Emperor was still available since he wasn't trapped on some planet so he could've appeared.
BTW you think that Order 66 Ahsoka would've matched Maul or even the freaking GI?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And you still haven't pointed out where Filoni describes availability to fight as the only parameter, if even a parameter at all.Not sure what Order 66 Ahsoka has to do with anything.
He was talking why they couldn't let Ahsoka appaer that much because only a limited group of characters could match her and thus be an antagonist in those episodes. So availability is obviously going to be a parameter, not everything has to be spelled out.
Well according to you he was referring to the entire OT time period so Order 66 Ahsoka is part of that time period and obviously inferior to her Rebels incarnation yet she would also fall under the same quote.
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9And by that same logic the Emperor would be excluded as well, because it would be unreasonable to bring him into the show at that point, or any point for that matter.
He was talking why they couldn't let Ahsoka appaer that much because only a limited group of characters could match her and thus be an antagonist in those episodes. So availability is obviously going to be a parameter, not everything has to be spelled out.Well according to you he was referring to the entire OT time period so Order 66 Ahsoka is part of that time period and obviously inferior to her Rebels incarnation yet she would also fall under the same quote.
Why? The fact that he's talking about Ahsoka in her prime is obvious. He's talking about the era in which Rebels takes place.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So? It would still be bizarre and nonsensical to bring the Emperor into Seasons 2* to fight Ahsoka, and they never planned to do so, why should that be any less a parameter in your contrived reading when these parameters are indeed, entirely made up?*by the way you may not of noticed, but Maul was actually in that season!
Look his context was about who could fight Ashoka, and there was no one (aside from Vader and Sidious) hence why she wasn't used much.
*I kind of did notice hence why I brought up that Maul actually did match her blade for blade. Hence there's clearly some context you're missing from Filoni's words.
Originally posted by BeniboyblingAnd this is cute, considering within the same page you've invoked Filoni's authority on the Ahsoka vs Vader, and elsewhere have done the same regarding Grievous vs Ventress. Double standards much?
You see you can't even quote me in context, and I'm here to answer back. So what guarantee is there you're interpreting Filoni's words 100% correct?
I brought up those commentaries simply to point out Filoni doesn't take Dark Side nexus's into account.
I've also made it explicitly clear that taking his commentary on specific episodes is fine, but taking him as an authority on the most powerful Jedi/Sith of that era and on the position of a character he's admittedly biased towards is kind of pushing his authority level.
Originally posted by Darth ThorOK, but try responding to my point maybe?
Look his context was about who could fight Ashoka, and there was no one (aside from Vader and Sidious) hence why she wasn't used much.*I kind of did notice hence why I brought up that Maul actually did match her blade for blade. Hence there's clearly some context you're missing from Filoni's words.
You see you can't even quote me in context, and I'm here to answer back. So what guarantee is there you're interpreting Filoni's words 100% correct?So an arbitrary distinction then, how convenient. But anyway we've discussed this already, he referring not just his opinion, but the opinion and direction of the Rebels team as a whole.I brought up those commentaries simply to point out Filoni doesn't take Dark Side nexus's into account.
I've also made it explicitly clear that taking his commentary on specific episodes is fine, but taking him as an authority on the most powerful Jedi/Sith of that era and on the position of a character he's admittedly biased towards is kind of pushing his authority level.
And you realise the guy is the Executive Producer, right?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And by that same logic the Emperor would be excluded as well, because it would be unreasonable to bring him into the show at that point, or any point for that matter.Why? The fact that he's talking about Ahsoka in her prime is obvious. He's talking about the era in which Rebels takes place.
Doesn't matter, he's still theoretically available, if they would use him that's another question which frankly has little to do with my previous comment.
Oh so now he's talking about Ahsoka during her Rebels prime and not the entire OT, Double standards Beni? Anyways, the point still stands that there is no reason for Filoni to make a comment of the entire era if he's only looking at characters that could make an appaerance in season 2 to serve as an antagonist for Ahsoka.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK, but try responding to my point maybe?
What, you mean about less chance of the Emperor showing up than Maul? Yeah fair enough. Except I still don't think that's what he means. He was talking about why Ahsoka wasn't showing up much in Season 2. Now you really think he meant Maul isn't a good enough foe for Ahsoka?
And again... When Maul does show up, he does match Ahsoka blow for blow, so taking his words literally makes no sense.
He was just pointing out there's not much competition for Ahsoka in this time period. He only wants Ahsoka being challenged by the top tiers.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So an arbitrary distinction then, how convenient.
??
Originally posted by Beniboybling
But anyway we've discussed this already, he referring not just his opinion, but the opinion and direction of the Rebels team as a whole.
Yeah so he claims. I mean you realise that whole team works for him right?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And you realise the guy is the Executive Producer, right?
And that gives him authority over the entire time period?
The good thing about Lucas being gone now, is that there is no one person who has absolute say and authority on everything.
Unless you believe ROTJ Luke is basically useless and would get his butt kicked by any Council Member?