Ulic-Qel Droma - Underrated!

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Hmmm? At very least Luke was hindered.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
2. Wow. So he was above RotJ Luke, who was only Kenobi level. Alos, if Luke was hindered in JA! he was hindered in RotJ as well. 🙄
Nothing of taht proves that Luke wasn't hindered.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Concession accepted on the former part. 🙂

Sorry.

This incarnation of Luke Skywalker is above his Dark Empire incarnation, and more experienced as well. 😉

Also, the difference between JA Luke and later incernations of him is taht he didn't knew anything about Sorcery back then.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Doesn't changes that it us still in Kun's favor.

I debunked your environment argument here.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
2. JA Like > DE Luke > DS Nexus JA Luke 🙂

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Also, the difference between JA Luke and later incernations of him is taht he didn't knew anything about Sorcery back then.

As far as I know, Luke, or the Jedi in general, weren't hindered by the Yavin Temples.

Nowhere was that ever stated, and it, has, in fact, empowered Jedi in the past, rather than vitiate their ability to call on the Force.

It only empowered Jedi in Darksaber when they realized they can draw on it, and that is a full year after JA and took a good deal of concentration. Dark Side sites -- which Yavin IV was noted as being -- in-general were stated as having a vitiative effect on Jedi, and I don't think that'd change.

Also LeG, you do realize the difference between starting something by laying out it's foundations and actually accomplishing something. The New Jedi Order, in theory, did start on Yavin IV since that is where Luke began training Jedi. But not until 25 ABY was the Order finished; in fact, it wasn't until 25 ABY that all the Jedi were collected underneath the same roof.

That's like saying America began in 1492.

Literally nothing you said disproves anything. If the temples operated like typical DS nexi, than it wouldn't have powered those who call upon the lightside of the Force, not matter how much they concentrated on it.

And no source written by Anderson specifically that feature those temples, has noted any kind of such hinderence. So, until I see actual evidence the the nexus vitiated Luke to a significant degree, I have grounds to believe it didn't.

As an aside, Kyle Katarn was also able to call on the temples as a lightsider.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Have you ever considered the actual reason might be that your arguments are in fact, terrible? No of course not, carry on. 😂

In the respect that Kun was a catalyst for unlocking Kyp's latent potential yeah. But no, the idea that Kyp is getting all his power from Kun is just some shit you made up, lol.

And as far as the Suncrusher feat is concerned, in it the text expliclty describes Kun as tapping into Kyp's abilities and in this way enhancing them, with Kyp using his innate abilities, unlocked by Kun, to retrieve the Sun Crusher (while channelling that power through the Massassi Temple), with yes Luke arriving immediately after, and without Kun withdrawing his influence:
Or in other words, Kun bolstered Kyp's talents by unlocking his "full might", with which, along with Kun's own "forbidden weapons", he defeated Luke.

👆

You could try actually reading the books instead of looking like a baffoon.

Firstly, it is clear that Kyp Durron would have to have been far more powerful than originally thought by anybody, for him to accomplish the Sun Crusher feat:

She[Leia] whispered, "Could Kyp have resurrected the Sun Crusher from the core of Yavin?
Han blinked. "How could he possibly do that?"
Cilghal hung her head gravely. "If Kyp Durron has managed that, then his power is far greater even than we feared. No wonder he was able to defeat Master Skywalker."
- Champions of the Force

Which we know was because of Exar Kun:

He also_bolsters Kyp's talents_to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Kyp was intimidated to be alone with the man he had defeated through Exar Kun's evil powers.
- Champions of the Force

We know as a matter of fact that Kun's final destruction freed Kyp of all his dark side power:

And then the haunting voice of Exar Kun rose to a wail in his mind, an utterly forlorn scream as if he were being torn out of this universe and exiled to another place entirely, where he could torment Kyp Durron no more. Kyp snapped backward in his control seat as if an invisible tow cable had been severed. His arms and head dangled like a puppet with suddenly snipped strings. The cool wind of freedom whistled through his mind and body. He blinked his eyes and shuddered with revulsion at what he had been about to do.
- Champions of the Force

Because Exar Kun as a spirit has no energy reserves, he must draw energy from others to fuel his power. Which is the symbiotic relationship he has with Kyp:

Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Which is the entire point, he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy so he can return to physical form:

With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Exar Kun corrupted Luke’s most powerful student, Kyp Durron, and attempted to resurrect himself by draining power from Luke and the other trainees.
- Jedi VS Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force[/I]

Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy.
- Jedi Academy Sourcebook

I mean, this isn't surprising, because we have in-universe observations pointing to Exar Kun being much more powerful than Master Skywalker:

If Exar Kun could mask the attack on me in such a way that Master Skywalker could not feel it barely fifteen meters away, then we were up against something more powerful than I'd cared to imagine existing.
-_Star Wars: I, Jedi Audiobook

Infact numerous quotes point to Exar Kun being an Emperor Palpatine tier Sith threat:

While the New Republic struggles to decide what to do with the deadly Sun Crusher-A new doomsday weapon stolen from the Empire by Han Solo-the renegade Imperial Admiral Daala uses her fleet of Star Destroyers to conduct guerilla warfare on peaceful planets. And now she threatens the watery homeworld of Admiral Ackbar. But as the battle for a planet rages, an even greater danger emerges at Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy. A brilliant student delves dangerously into the dark side of the Force and unleashes the spirit of an ancient master of the evil order that warped Darth Vader himself. Working together, they may become an enemy greater than any the New Republic has ever fought. . . more powerful than even a Jedi Master can face.
-_Dark Apprentice

If he could face this final test, Luke would know that Kyp had passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured. . . .
- Champions of the Force

The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun. . .
- Children of the Jedi

There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.
-_Specters of the Past

The fact is, Exar Kun is an extremely powerful Sith Lord, far more so than the likes of Freedon Nadd and Karness Muur. He's even touted as the darkest power in the galaxy, with a Sith Lord such as Vitiate in it, before ever gaining the powers of the most powerful holocron in the mythos.

Him being much more powerful than JA Kyp or Luke is absolutely a possibility.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Literally nothing you said disproves anything. If the temples operated like typical DS nexi, than it wouldn't have powered those who call upon the lightside of the Force, not matter how much they concentrated on it.

Jedi were amplified by Dark Side nexuses before, when they concentrated and actively drew on it. It happened in Yoda: Dark Rendezvous on Vjun, despite Yoda being weakened by the risidual effects of the nexus.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
And no source written by Anderson specifically that feature those temples, has noted any kind of such hinderence. So, until I see actual evidence the the nexus vitiated Luke to a significant degree, I have grounds to believe it didn't.

And thank God we're looking at an entire universe, with dictated laws and facts already presented, so we don't need Anderson penning something to make another thing in his source true.

That's like saying Force Shields in RotS aren't a thing because Drew isn't writting it.

But if you want proof, Kyp is scared sh!tless from re-entering the Temple because the Dark Side is strong in it:

"He had seen things that still left yammering nightmares in the depths of his mind.

'The dark side is strong in that place,' Kyp said. 'I can't go in there.'

Master Skywalker said, "In your fear lies caution, and in that caution lies wisdom and strength." He squatted on a comfortable rock at the edge of the crystalline lake. He shaded his eyes against the light reflecting from the surface of the pool.

'I will wait here,' Master Skywalker said, 'but you must go inside.'

Kyp swallowed, terror and revulsion rising within him."

-- Jedi Academy: Champions of the Force

And the deeper Kyp went into the temple, his stomach wrenched, his skin crawled, his vision blurred and he moved sluggishly despite trying his best to move quickly:
"He waited.

Suddenly Kyp's stomach wrenched. His skin crawled. He blinked as his vision blurred. The air around him grew grainy as if the light itself had splintered inside the temple.

He tried to turn, but found himself moving sluggishly as if the air resisted him, solidifying around him. Everything flickered. Kyp staggered deeper into the temple, trying to move quickly, but his body would not respond with its customary speed."

-- Jedi Academy: Champions of the Force

Jedi were amplified by Dark Side nexuses before

It happened inYoda: Dark Rendezvous

DR has the likes of Anakin was powered just by simply entering it's atmosphere, without actively concentrating on anything ---- it completely goes against the way a DS nexus has been factually explained to operate, which, is my point from the start: writers can, and have, downright ignored canon in their works, just like KJ Anderson has with the temples. That's specifically the reason I asked for an example of the nexus comparing the ability of a lightsider, under Anderson's pen.

And thank God we're looking at an entire universe, with dictated laws and facts already presented, so we don't need Anderson penning something to make another thing in his source true.

That's like saying Force Shields in RotS aren't a thing because Drew isn't writting it.

This analogy sucks about as much cock as a porn star, lmao, and completely misses my point, as illustrated above.

But if you want proof, Kyp is scared sh!tless from re-entering the Temple because the Dark Side is strong in it [....snip]

Is this before, or after his fall to the dark side?

Because I recall a passage in The Dark Apprentice, having Kyp feeling empowered, or some adjacent to that, by the temples power, pre dark side fall.

That is Kun's personal obsidian temple, not the Great Temple, where Kun defeats Luke. So all of those quotes are irrelevant.

Well, there is that then.

I seem to recall The Great Temple actually having a positive effect on Kyp's power, or something along those lines.

Well Kyp draws on the temple and attempts to sense the Sun Crusher by himself. Then Kun's power reinforces his abilities, which is when the 'feeble' comparison gets made. So Kyp amped by the Great Temple's focal point was still feeble in comparison to when he has Kun's power aiding him.

Luke and his students are never stated to be effected negatively by the temple in question, throughout the trilogy and I, Jedi.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You could try actually reading the books instead of looking like a baffoon.

Firstly, it is clear that Kyp Durron would have to have been far more powerful than originally thought by anybody, for him to accomplish the Sun Crusher feat:

Which we know was because of Exar Kun

We know as a matter of fact that Kun's final destruction freed Kyp of all his dark side power

Because Exar Kun as a spirit has no energy reserves, he must draw energy from others to fuel his power. Which is the symbiotic relationship he has with Kyp

Which is the entire point, he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy so he can return to physical form

I mean, this isn't surprising, because we have in-universe observations pointing to Exar Kun being much more powerful than Master Skywalker

Infact numerous quotes point to Exar Kun being an Emperor Palpatine tier Sith threat

The fact is, Exar Kun is an extremely powerful Sith Lord, far more so than the likes of Freedon Nadd and Karness Muur. He's even touted as the darkest power in the galaxy, with a Sith Lord such as Vitiate in it, before ever gaining the powers of the most powerful holocron in the mythos.

Him being much more powerful than JA Kyp or Luke is absolutely a possibility.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Which, quote frankly, doesn't make the slight bit of sense and actively ignores canon. Out of curiosity, list the actual sources where this has happen.

DR has the likes of Anakin was powered just by simply entering it's atmosphere, without actively concentrating on anything ---- it completely goes against the way a DS nexus has been factually explained to operate, which, is my point from the start: writers can, and have, downright ignored canon in their works, just like KJ Anderson has with the temples. That's specifically the reason I asked for an example of the nexus comparing the ability of a lightsider, under Anderson's pen.

I agree; the authors were clearly pulling sh!t out of their ass in both Darksaber and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, but then again the authors have only noted Jedi being amplified by the effects of the a DS nexus by drawing on it's power, whereas it's risidual energy usually hinders them. This is, ironically, something that even applies to Dark Siders. As Sidious tells Vader:

Even Dark Siders can have their powers taken away, unless they tap into the Force conduit directly. There's other examples of this throughout the mythos(the most commonly cited one is Bane being weakened from the presence of the Lehon Temple, yet drawing on it's power in his duel with Kas'im).

I would imagine the only reason Jedi aren't usually empowered by DS nexuses is because their allegiance to the Light and moral code/principles doesn't allow them to draw on such a source of power, whereas Dark Siders have no such qualms.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Is this before, or after his fall to the dark side?

Because I recall a passage in The Dark Apprentice, having Kyp feeling empowered, or some adjacent to that, by the temples power, pre dark side fall.

That was only under the guidance of Exar Kun, IIRC, and by then he was a Dark Sider and actively drawing on it's nexus. Besides, the Great Temple is meant to be the major focus of Exar Kun's power, and all of the Temples were designed to house a nexus of the Dark Side, so if anything it'd be a greater hinderance to a Light Sider to stand within the Great Temple than the Obsidian Temple.

Concession accepted, Beni.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Your attempts at face-saving are most quaint. Next time, make sure that you've actually read the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, which provides us with a perfectly viable and canonical(to Legends) explanation of how the possession of Kyp Durron worked.

Honestly, did you even think about your argument? A full potential/dark sided Kyp Durron would have been far more powerful than he ever actually was in the books.

Saving face? I responded to your point, you continue to flounder and fail in a rebuttal. 😂

AP butchering Beni.