Isaiah Bone vs Ip Man

Originally posted by relentless1
not comparing them, just saying they have as many feats as hammer does... although hammer would very likely would destroy both of them; northerner isn't strong enough to hurt him and twister doesnt have any skill outside of boxing which plays right into hammers strengths

stronger than the northerner and twister, any evidence for this? is hammerman can keep up with the northerner in terms of speed? how about skill? did hammerman showed any remarkable skill feat?

hammerman only defeated a chump lol

and the northerner only defeated chumps as well, your bias towards bone notwithstanding, id expect you to at least have the sense to realize that the masters from ip man are completely featless as well...can you at least admit that much??

Originally posted by relentless1
and the northerner only defeated chumps as well, your bias towards bone notwithstanding, id expect you to at least have the sense to realize that the masters from ip man are completely featless as well...can you at least admit that much??

yes i admit, the kung fu masters from the first movie were featless, but we should also take a look at their martial arts background (example how can you be a martial arts master if you dont have any remarkable skills to begin with).

second how can you be sure that the guy hammerman fought is skilled? there was no evidence that suggests that the guy he fought has some MA background, so i concluded that hammerman only defeated a chump.

third. the guys bone defeated in the movie were merely gangbangers, street fighters etc. w/no evidence that they even train in any martial arts (except price).

fourth, youre low balling too much the guys ip fought, unlike bone the guys ip defeated did have some martial arts background some of them even demonstrated low superhuman feats.

yeah they have martial arts background for sure, but then again so did price and bone dominated him. Looking at the masters that Ip dominated and the champions (hammer and price) that bone did, bones method of fighting was much more impressive on a hard hitting visceral level than Ip Man.

Granted Ips style is so much faster and more flashy but I think in the end that from what we've seen both fighters do Bone has the harder hit power ad is fast enough to contend and hit Ip which from what we've seen Ip can't take shots from bigger guys as well as he can from the people that are his size and style type.

Originally posted by Drsoe08
yes i admit, the kung fu masters from the first movie were featless, but we should also take a look at their martial arts background (example how can you be a martial arts master if you dont have any remarkable skills to begin with).

second how can you be sure that the guy hammerman fought is skilled? there was no evidence that suggests that the guy he fought has some MA background, so i concluded that hammerman only defeated a chump.

third. the guys bone defeated in the movie were merely gangbangers, street fighters etc. w/no evidence that they even train in any martial arts (except price).

fourth, youre low balling too much the guys ip fought, unlike bone the guys ip defeated did have some martial arts background some of them even demonstrated low superhuman feats.

Who do you think have more credibility of being good fighters: street/cage fighters who make a living fighting other people or martial arts "masters" who make a living teaching forms in a dojo?

I seen blackbelts get beat by thugs. Knowing forms and techniques is useless if you don't have fighting experience knowing how to apply them. Also it was proven many years ago that MMA is vastly superior to any classic style. There is no way a master Kung fu expert is beating an MMA expert that weighs a lot more.

Originally posted by h1a8
I seen blackbelts get beat by thugs. Knowing forms and techniques is useless if you don't have fighting experience knowing how to apply them. Also it was proven many years ago that MMA is vastly superior to any classic style. There is no way a master Kung fu expert is beating an MMA expert that weighs a lot more.

So your argument is that the people Ip man beat had no fighting exp?

Originally posted by h1a8
I seen blackbelts get beat by thugs. Knowing forms and techniques is useless if you don't have fighting experience knowing how to apply them. Also it was proven many years ago that MMA is vastly superior to any classic style. There is no way a master Kung fu expert is beating an MMA expert that weighs a lot more.

any evidence that supports your claim that regular thugs can beat karate black belts? any videos?

second, you cant reach the rank of black belt if you are only practicing forms and stances, for example kyokushin karate uses sparring as a "measurement tool" to assess if a practitioner is ready for new a rank and karate practitioners trains alot they condition their bodies to take lots of damage at same time dishing out more damage.

lastly its not about style vs style, its about the fighters.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Who do you think have more credibility of being good fighters: street/cage fighters who make a living fighting other people or martial arts "masters" who make a living teaching forms in a dojo?

apparently youre not that knowledgeable about how one reaches a "master" rank in any martial arts, if you think that most martial arts instructors only teaches forms then you are wrong.

Originally posted by 950Killer
any evidence that supports your claim that regular thugs can beat karate black belts? any videos?

second, you cant reach the rank of black belt if you are only practicing forms and stances, for example kyokushin karate uses sparring as a "measurement tool" to assess if a practitioner is ready for new a rank and karate practitioners trains alot they condition their bodies to take lots of damage at same time dishing out more damage.

lastly its not about style vs style, its about the fighters.

If you watch the early days of the UFC, you'll find many examples of black belts getting badly beaten by big thugs who do nothing except ground and pound.

Sparring is not the same as fighting, and depending on the style of martial art their sparring may have very limiting rules.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you watch the early days of the UFC, you'll find many examples of black belts getting badly beaten by big thugs who do nothing except ground and pound.

Sparring is not the same as fighting, and depending on the style of martial art their sparring may have very limiting rules.

so thats why royce gracie(bjj black belt at that time) was a multiple ufc tourny winner and most of his opponents were other black belts from different martial arts systems

sparring is a very important in enhancing combat abilities of a fighter, if sparring is not that important then most prize fighters of today should've have abandoned it

Originally posted by 950Killer
so thats why royce gracie(bjj black belt at that time) was a multiple ufc tourny winner and most of his opponents were other black belts from different martial arts systems

sparring is a very important in enhancing combat abilities of a fighter, if sparring is not that important then most prize fighters of today should've have abandoned it

Yeah, you took Royce Gracie as an example. 1 guy. 1 exanple out of all the black belters who competed in the UFC. Unfortunately for you, IP man does not do bjj. How many other black belters other than bjj made it big in the UFC? Black belters who didn't cross train with othet styles?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, you took Royce Gracie as an example. 1 guy. 1 exanple out of all the black belters who competed in the UFC. Unfortunately for you, IP man does not do bjj. How many other black belters other than bjj made it big in the UFC? Black belters who didn't cross train with othet styles?

which brings us back to the argument that "black belters > street fighters", my point is that obviously ip man defeated more skilled opponents than bone. bone didnt faced any serious challenge from the movie while ip man displayed more skill in a more challenging situations (beating twister whilst nearly beaten to a pulp, defeating 10 black belts simultaneously etc.). while bone stomped his opponents because obviously they dont have any sufficient skill to contend with him. (except price)

Originally posted by 950Killer
which brings us back to the argument that "black belters > street fighters", my point is that obviously ip man defeated more skilled opponents than bone. bone didnt faced any serious challenge from the movie while ip man displayed more skill in a more challenging situations (beating twister whilst nearly beaten to a pulp, defeating 10 black belts simultaneously etc.). while bone stomped his opponents because obviously they dont have any sufficient skill to contend with him. (except price)

I don't think you understood my post correctly. There were multiple black belters who joined the early days of UFC, majority of them lost. That disproves your theory. Gracie was one of the few men who had a pure martial art that was able to make a name for himself, which also brought bjj to the forefront. But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of traditional martial art black belters were defeated via ground and pound by thugs in the early days of the UFC.

Just take Tank Abbott for instance.

To be fair, Tank Abbott was a NJCAA All-American in college. so it's not like he was just a random thug.

Originally posted by Silent Master
To be fair, Tank Abbott was a NJCAA All-American in college. so it's not like he was just a random thug.

Majority of street or cage fighters will have some form of fighting background, which is why we can't say that the peole Bone fought were without skill. This idea that blackbelts who've never fought but only sparred are somehow automatically more skilled at fighting than people who make a living off fighting... well that's stupid.

That's why you don't see a lot of karate or wing chun experts dominate the UFC. They almost all have to cross train in something else to be competitive.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So your argument is that the people Ip man beat had no fighting exp?

Any male ufc fighter from any weight class would be at any of them with ease.

MMA and Kung fu isn't even a contest.

Originally posted by h1a8
They haven't shown the fighting experience as a Price or Bone has.

Any male ufc fighter from any weight class would be at any of them with ease.

MMA and Kung fu isn't even a contest.

So your argument is that because Ip man was able to defeat them faster than Bone beat his opponents, they must be less skilled that the people Bone fought?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So your argument is that because Ip man was able to defeat them faster than Bone beat his opponents, they must be less skilled that the people Bone fought?

They didn't fight for a living.
They did useless form shit for practice.
They were very small and lightweight.
They had no Brazilian jujitsu or ground fighting ability.

So compared to a ufc fighter, they aren't very skilled. Just a bunch of BS techniques.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Majority of street or cage fighters will have some form of fighting background, which is why we can't say that the peole Bone fought were without skill. This idea that blackbelts who've never fought but only sparred are somehow automatically more skilled at fighting than people who make a living off fighting... well that's stupid.

That's why you don't see a lot of karate or wing chun experts dominate the UFC. They almost all have to cross train in something else to be competitive.

most street fighters IRL doesnt have any fighting background just look at kimbo slice vs the street fighters that he roflstomped.

you truly don't understand on why sparring is an important component in training, so youre also telling me that any dude who makes a living off street fighting can beat a black belt? any evidence to back this up?