The Ancient One runs an Avengers Gauntlet
- The Ancient One is fighting to the best of her abilities, as shown onscreen.
- She's fully rested and healed at the start of each round.
- Win via any means necessary.
- Fight starts in the middle of Central Park.
The Gauntlet:
--------------
Black Widow
Hawkeye
Falcon
Captain America
War Machine
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Hulk
Vision
Thor
How far does she get?
I don't recall that much offensive powers from the Ancient One. It was mostly h2h combat. She can conjure magical weapons, but I don't think those would hurt guys like Hulk and Thor much. Her biggest advantage is battlefield reorientation, but that would be negated by anyone who could fly. Which means IM, Warmachine and Falcon all have a shot at beating her with enough firepower. Vision and SW can definitely win. Thor and Hulk probably can as well, although they'll have a harder time since their flight/jumping is not as instantaneous as the others.
Well, assuming she can get close, she has some rather exotic abilities as well, like punching someone's astral form out of their body, or mind-raping them by sending them spiraling through reality (two things she did to Dr Strange, during their first encounter). She seemed capable of doing those things pretty much instantly, with little more than a touch.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, assuming she can get close, she has some rather exotic abilities as well, like punching someone's astral form out of their body, or mind-raping them by sending them spiraling through reality (two things she did to Dr Strange, during their first encounter). She seemed capable of doing those things pretty much instantly, with little more than a touch.
Don't know, I usually have trouble using feats that weren't done in combat in these MVF fights. It's the same reason I don't normally use Wanda's mind-hallucination powers in the fights or Dr. Strange's ability to create endless beer.
Not saying she can't do it, just don't know how easy it would be for her to do in combat since she never used it against proper fighting opponents.
Don't see why she can't though. She did the astral punch thing when Dr Strange tried to grab her. And she was yanking him in and out of that spiraling vision thing pretty easily. Mordo still mentioned that his heartrate was rising, to which the Ancient One quickly yanked him back, looked at him, and sent him off again. If she had shown strain/effort in doing those things, I'd question their validity in combat. But she was doing those things with casual ease.
What I am really curious about is whether she could affect things like Falcon's wings, or IM/WM suits. The Ancient One and Kaecilius never bent organic matter (at least not that I can recall), but they seemed capable of warping things like stone, metal etc. without issues. It'd be interesting to see if she could mess with Falcon's wings, or the suits.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Don't see why she can't though. She did the astral punch thing when Dr Strange tried to grab her. And she was yanking him in and out of that spiraling vision thing pretty easily. Mordo still mentioned that his heartrate was rising, to which the Ancient One quickly yanked him back, looked at him, and sent him off again. If she had shown strain/effort in doing those things, I'd question their validity in combat. But she was doing those things with casual ease.What I am really curious about is whether she could affect things like Falcon's wings, or IM/WM suits. The Ancient One and Kaecilius never bent organic matter (at least not that I can recall), but they seemed capable of warping things like stone, metal etc. without issues. It'd be interesting to see if she could mess with Falcon's wings, or the suits.
She did all those when she wasn't in danger of getting hurt herself. Strange wasn't really attacking her, didn't even know what to expect, so the circumstances of her doing so are vastly different than when in a fight.
It's like how martial art masters can break multiple layers of brick with a single punch and yet can't easily break their opponent's bones in a proper fight.
Originally posted by FrothByte
She did all those when she wasn't in danger of getting hurt herself. Strange wasn't really attacking her, didn't even know what to expect, so the circumstances of her doing so are vastly different than when in a fight.It's like how martial art masters can break multiple layers of brick with a single punch and yet can't easily break their opponent's bones in a proper fight.
Mirror Realm or alternate dimension. Leave them there. /end thread
I think the only Avenger that will give her trouble is Vison. I might even say Cap might have a chance because he's the best combatant/strategist, but even that's a really big stretch.
Avengers who rely more on weapons/tech are not gonna beat her. It's safe to say that from what is shown in the film she can bend/alter inanimate objects to her will. I don't see a reason why she can't alter weapons the same way she alters
buildings and other matter. She could just fold Iron Man's suit into a tiny origami of Pikachu.
Hawkeye, Falcon, Iron Man and War Machine are out.
Avengers who rely on fighting skills are not gonna beat her with just that. She was soloing Kaecilius and all his zealots until they fled from her. The only person I see having a chance beating her in melee is Cap and even than she'd still have an edge because of sorcery.
Black Widow and Captain America are out.
Which leaves Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Vision and Thor.
Hulk is gonna blindly jump at her so all she has to do is open a portal right in front of her and BFR him anywhere she wants.
Wanda is powerful but she's only a kid and getting used to her powers. Wanda is essentially a spell caster as well she's not gonna beat the Ancient One at her own game. I can see how someone would rebuttle this though.
Thor will be tough but he's not the smartest Avenger. She can't fight him so she's gonna have to BFR him somehow.
Finally Vision. He's the wild card because he has an Infinity Stone and falls into a strange category. Will she be able to manipulate his cells? He IS synthetic. That is why I think of all the Avengers he will probably be the biggest problem.
Originally posted by HellRider
I think the only Avenger that will give her trouble is Vison. I might even say Cap might have a chance because he's the best combatant/strategist, but even that's a really big stretch.Avengers who rely more on weapons/tech are not gonna beat her. It's safe to say that from what is shown in the film she can bend/alter inanimate objects to her will. I don't see a reason why she can't alter weapons the same way she alters
buildings and other matter. She could just fold Iron Man's suit into a tiny origami of Pikachu.Hawkeye, Falcon, Iron Man and War Machine are out.
Avengers who rely on fighting skills are not gonna beat her with just that. She was soloing Kaecilius and all his zealots until they fled from her. The only person I see having a chance beating her in melee is Cap and even than she'd still have an edge because of sorcery.
Black Widow and Captain America are out.
Which leaves Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Vision and Thor.
Hulk is gonna blindly jump at her so all she has to do is open a portal right in front of her and BFR him anywhere she wants.
Wanda is powerful but she's only a kid and getting used to her powers. Wanda is essentially a spell caster as well she's not gonna beat the Ancient One at her own game. I can see how someone would rebuttle this though.
Thor will be tough but he's not the smartest Avenger. She can't fight him so she's gonna have to BFR him somehow.
Finally Vision. He's the wild card because he has an Infinity Stone and falls into a strange category. Will she be able to manipulate his cells? He IS synthetic. That is why I think of all the Avengers he will probably be the biggest problem.
Saying the Ancient One can manipulate IM and Warmachine's armors just because she manipulated the environment feels almost like no limits fallacy to me.
Also, Wanda doesn't cast spells. There's nothing to stop Wanda from ripping apart the Ancient One with TK.
The Ancient One is a glass canon compared to most of the Avengers. Her only real hope in winning majority of these matches is BFR.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Saying the Ancient One can manipulate IM and Warmachine's armors just because she manipulated the environment feels almost like no limits fallacy to me.Also, Wanda doesn't cast spells. There's nothing to stop Wanda from ripping apart the Ancient One with TK.
The Ancient One is a glass canon compared to most of the Avengers. Her only real hope in winning majority of these matches is BFR.
I can see why you'd pull out the "no limits fallacy" but is it? Doctor Strange says to her "this doesn't make any sense" and she replies "not everything has to." I'm not saying this proves that she can manipulate their armor but I don't see why she couldn't. They are merely mechanical vehicles. They are inanimate objects in space. In the first fight scene she folds buildings onto zealots to crush them. I'm only saying I think there is definitely a possibility she could perform that same act on Stark's armor.
Why isn't what Wanda does considered spells? She's using power that was given to her from an Infinity Stone to alter nature. When Doctor Strange used the Time Stone they stated he was casting spells with it. Same goes for when Malekith used the Reality Stone to change the cosmos, Loki's Mind Tap with the scepter or when Ronan zapped the Nova Corp w/ the power stone. If what TAO does is spell casting but what Wanda does isn't, I'm asking, what's the difference? But like I said, I can see how someone could refute my stance.
Oh she is definitely a glass cannon but she is a very tricky and powerful glass cannon. I do agree BFR is her best advantage against most of the Avengers, if not all.
Originally posted by FrothByte
She did all those when she wasn't in danger of getting hurt herself. Strange wasn't really attacking her, didn't even know what to expect, so the circumstances of her doing so are vastly different than when in a fight.
If she was just some frail, old lady, I'd agree with you. But she also showed herself to be an extremely skilled fighter, capable of casually manhandling multiple enhanced opponents at once (because people who can defy gravity and conjure weapons out of thin air are enhanced). Hell, she yanked two off their feet simply by moving her legs backwards. She has shown herself to be able to easily tag opponents in combat, and she can do those things I listed with casual touches, so I personally don't see the big leap in her doing those things against fighting opponents. Also, there is a good reason for her not using those attacks in combat, in the actual movie. Given the training/knowledge we see sorcerers receive, with regards to reality, astral projection, dimension hopping etc. those attacks are likely to be much less effective against fellow sorcerers (but we see they are highly effective against non-magical targets).
But one of the main reasons I don't see her having issues is because she did (what I consider at least) far more impressive magical feats, while in the middle of combat. On more than one occasion, she was able to reshape the entire battlefield, while engaging multiple opponents. If she can twist buildings around while fighting someone, I don't see why she can't astral punch someone who gets close enough.
Originally posted by FrothByte
So BFR then. Sure. Doesn't explain how she'll be able to stop bullets or explosions or TK or Hulk/Thor level strength from killing her.
Strange's shields were able to hold, for several seconds, against a beam that completely disintegrated him when it actually struck (not to mention all the other flying projectiles he blocked), but you think the Ancient One, who is vastly more skilled and experienced than him, will have issues with bullets? I can see larger explosions being a problem (given that their shields weren't an all-encompassing bubble), but I personally doubt regular bullets would do much.
Also, not sure how manipulating inorganic matter is a fallacy, when we have seen her do exactly that onscreen. Literally what single feat is there among the rest of the Avengers to suggest any of their regular gear/tech is more magic-resistant than any other inorganic matter?