The Ancient One runs an Avengers Gauntlet

Started by TheVaultDweller4 pages

Originally posted by FrothByte
There is no double standard. You're simply misrepresenting what I said. I NEVER said that something needed to be shown with an exact, specific feat in order to be valid. I don't even know why you think that's what I said.

What I did say was, a feat that was done outside combat does not mean it can be applied in combat, since combat situations can be vastly more stressful and difficult.

So there is no double standard, since Thor, Cap and the SHIELD agents (including new recruits) all have displayed their feats in question while in combat, whereas AO's astral punch was never used in combat. It's that simple.

Well, to me, it was clearly meant to be portrayed as something she could do easily and casually (the act itself, not necessarily connecting it on someone trying to avoid it). She didn't show any strain, she wasn't out of breath etc. She showed no sign at all that it was difficult for her to do, or that she needed any recovery time afterwards. And she did it against a moving opponent who was trying to grab her, even if he was not a particularly skilled. She also showed herself to be cool and meticulous in actual combat, as well as very economical with her movements and actions (which would make sense, considering she literally has centuries of XP). So, to me, personally, I find it a weak reason to dismiss this particular case.

Anyway, it seems like we won't agree on this, so I see little point in continuing.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Err no, you actually need feats of her doing so in combat, because otherwise it would beg the question as to why she never used it in combat if it was so effective. It's the same reason why Ozy catching a bullet does not translate to bullet-time speed while in combat.

You ask why a character didn't use an incredibly useful ability in order to easily disarm a situation as if this isn't a staple of comics and shows/movies based on comics.

Her doing that isn't as flashy or cool as other kinds of attacks during a battle.

Originally posted by Surtur
You ask why a character didn't use an incredibly useful ability in order to easily disarm a situation as if this isn't a staple of comics and shows/movies based on comics.

Like Apocalypse decapitating a bunch of people standing around him, using only sand, during the beginning (well, in the first 3rd of the movie, at least) of X-Men: Apocalypse, and never using that extremely useful ability again.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, to me, it was clearly meant to be portrayed as something she could do easily and casually (the act itself, not necessarily connecting it on someone trying to avoid it). She didn't show any strain, she wasn't out of breath etc. She showed no sign at all that it was difficult for her to do, or that she needed any recovery time afterwards. And she did it against a moving opponent who was trying to grab her, even if he was not a particularly skilled. She also showed herself to be cool and meticulous in actual combat, as well as very economical with her movements and actions (which would make sense, considering she literally has centuries of XP). So, to me, personally, I find it a weak reason to dismiss this particular case.

Anyway, it seems like we won't agree on this, so I see little point in continuing.

Like I said before, martial artists can casually do a spinning heel kick in practice, yet won't easily be able to do in a fight.

In any case, using your logic, would you then say that Ozy could catch bullets in the middle of a fight?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Like I said before, martial artists can casually do a spinning heel kick in practice, yet won't easily be able to do in a fight.

When have I ever stated it would be easily done in a fight? I said the act itself might be easy (like doing the kick in practice), not that it would be easy to connect. In fact, I specifically said that it would also depend on the skill of the opponent. But I said that it would be a tactic potentially worth pursuing against someone like Hulk or Thor, considering that I don't see her normal attacks doing any damage.

I mean think of it this way. You fight someone and all your easier, more conventional attacks fail. You have another attack that you could try. It is riskier, it takes more effort, and it's harder to connect, but if it does, it would be more effective. Which is the better option? Risking it, or just keep pounding away, despite knowing it would do no good?

Originally posted by FrothByte

In any case, using your logic, would you then say that Ozy could catch bullets in the middle of a fight?

Maybe he could catch a single bullet. I wouldn't rule it out completely. But would he be able to do anything afterwards? Not based on the fact that he fell over in the process.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
When have I ever stated it would be easily done in a fight? I said the act itself might be easy (like doing the kick in practice), not that it would be easy to connect. In fact, I specifically said that it would also depend on the skill of the opponent. But I said that it would be a tactic potentially worth pursuing against someone like Hulk or Thor, considering that I don't see her normal attacks doing any damage.

I mean think of it this way. You fight someone and all your easier, more conventional attacks fail. You have another attack that you could try. It is riskier, it takes more effort, and it's harder to connect, but if it does, it would be more effective. Which is the better option? Risking it, or just keep pounding away, despite knowing it would do no good?

Maybe he could catch a single bullet. I wouldn't rule it out completely. But would he be able to do anything afterwards? Not based on the fact that he fell over in the process.

Ok, so could we just settle on the Astral Punch being an option but that it would probably be difficult to pull off in a fight since she doesn't have the feats of using it in a fight?

Originally posted by Surtur
You ask why a character didn't use an incredibly useful ability in order to easily disarm a situation as if this isn't a staple of comics and shows/movies based on comics.

Her doing that isn't as flashy or cool as other kinds of attacks during a battle.

It happens in real life too. There are loads of things that people can do in a relaxed environment that they won't be able to accomplish in a highly stressful environment.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, so could we just settle on the Astral Punch being an option but that it would probably be difficult to pull off in a fight since she doesn't have the feats of using it in a fight?

That's basically been my stance all along. It's not necessarily an easy option, but it would be worth a shot against opponents she can't affect via other, more conventional, means, like Thor or Hulk. I somehow doubt it would work on Vision though. I mean, does he even have an astral form?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's basically been my stance all along. It's not necessarily an easy option, but it would be worth a shot against opponents she can't affect via other, more conventional, means, like Thor or Hulk. I somehow doubt it would work on Vision though. I mean, does he even have an astral form?

Fair enough. Personally, I just don't think she'll get the chance to properly use it when she's busy defending against guys like Thor and Hulk he can probably knock her out with a casual hit.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Fair enough. Personally, I just don't think she'll get the chance to properly use it when she's busy defending against guys like Thor and Hulk he can probably knock her out with a casual hit.

Well, it would depend on how she has been utilizing other abilities as well, IMO. She might be able to create an opening if she takes it to the mirror realm, and starts screwing around with the terrain first. As we saw, she can start putting things in motion, so that the terrain/buildings keep moving and adjusting while she continues fighting, like she did during the film's opening fight scene. Anyway, like I said previously, I personally don't see her even getting that far in this gauntlet.

Bump
Ancient one clears this IMO, yes including scarlet witch.

Black Widow is more likely to win than anyone else honestly.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Strange's shields were able to hold, for several seconds, against a beam that completely disintegrated him when it actually struck (not to mention all the other flying projectiles he blocked), but you think the Ancient One, who is vastly more skilled and experienced than him, will have issues with bullets? I can see larger explosions being a problem (given that their shields weren't an all-encompassing bubble), but I personally doubt regular bullets would do much.

Also, not sure how manipulating inorganic matter is a fallacy, when we have seen her do exactly that onscreen. Literally what single feat is there among the rest of the Avengers to suggest any of their regular gear/tech is more magic-resistant than any other inorganic matter?

Do you think this was super strength or by magic
https://64.media.tumblr.com/5905c4ed1143a19196f715773997ee1c/tumblr_p3s4vqRu0x1v6w3juo4_500.gifv

And here's yanking people by legs
https://gfycat.com/afraidthincockerspaniel

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Do you think this was super strength or by magic
https://64.media.tumblr.com/5905c4ed1143a19196f715773997ee1c/tumblr_p3s4vqRu0x1v6w3juo4_500.gifv

And here's yanking people by legs
https://gfycat.com/afraidthincockerspaniel

I think it's either she augments her physical stats via magic or it could be a biproduct of her control of the Mirror Dimension. Personally, I'd lean to her augmenting her physical stats. Because even though she ultimately died from this, the fact that she didn't immediately die on impact suggests durability beyond a normal human. Especially considering she got stabbed as well.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrandioseBoldIcelandgull-mobile.mp4

Which, if we factor in what you posted, suggests augmented physical capabilities.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Black Widow is more likely to win than anyone else honestly.
How?
Ancient one would explode her with a handwave like that chitauri in that alternate past in Endgame.

She has different methods to fight every threat. She can beat enyone there.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I think it's either she augments her physical stats via magic or it could be a biproduct of her control of the Mirror Dimension. Personally, I'd lean to her augmenting her physical stats. Because even though she ultimately died from this, the fact that she didn't immediately die on impact suggests durability beyond a normal human. Especially considering she got stabbed as well.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrandioseBoldIcelandgull-mobile.mp4

Which, if we factor in what you posted, suggests augmented physical capabilities.


Yeah and also considering the fact that she was hitting some of them a good distance away suggests augmented strength.