Originally posted by Jmanghan
They performed exactly the same in when they fought the Guard.Scourge performed better in the fight against Nyriss.
You've obviously never read the book. Scourge kills 2, Revan kills 2(but he runs ahead to face the Emperor), Meetra kills 3.
Furthermore, the environment of the citadel is a dark side nexus which is confirmed by none other than Lord Scourge himself. There is no argument.
Meetra > hindered Meetra > amped Scourge > Scourge.
Back on-topic:
In his time as Dark Lord of the Sith, Tulak Hord was known as a master of the mystical dark arts of the Force, using his powers to plumb the depths of life and death.
―The Ritual of Tulak Hord Codex Entry
His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks.
―Tomb of Tulak Hord Codex Entry
The secrets behind Tulak Hord’s great power were many, and they all but vanished from the galaxy with the Dark Lord’s death. Generations of Sith have obsessed over unearthing his ancient teachings and artifacts, but Tulak Hord hid them well.
―Legacy of Tulak Hord Codex Entry
One of Khem Val's proudest victories came during the Battle of Chabosh, where he fought by Tulak Hord's side to conqueror an army of Jedi 1,000 strong.
―Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia
Tulak Hord - a mighty Sith Lord with legendary lightsaber skills...
―Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia
He's just holistically far beyond their league in the Force and sourcebooks support Kreia's historical knowledge regarding his lightsaber abilities. One need only look at Exar Kun's great leap in lightsaber skill after obtaining the Dark Holocron to recognise that the ancient Sith's lightsaber prowess was indeed far beyond the TOTJ-KOTOR era's abilities.
"He broke the siege with Khem Val at his side"
Yes. He broke an ongoing siege. He turned an ongoing battle in his army's favor. As I said, very impressive. Raskta/Kas'im level in fact. 😉
"and then absorbed the spirits of the Jedi he killed."
Unless you can quantify that it's simply another gold star for Hord.
"His mastery of the Force vastly outstrips everybody else here combined"
Quote that places his mastery above Mara, Korr and Kyle's or somebody above the aforementioned individuals?
"his lightsaber prowess is quite possibly > Exar Kun's."
His ability as a technical duelist surpasses Kun's according to Kreia. There's no in reason universe for Kreia to possess such knowledge.
"Oh and Feat Wars is moronic, honestly."
You're free to think what you like. I find in a highly contradicted/contested medium like Star Wars it's the best path.
Originally posted by AncientPowerThe one that Scourge fought was the best Guard that Vitiate had.
You've obviously never read the book. Scourge kills 2, Revan kills 2(but he runs ahead to face the Emperor), Meetra kills 3.Furthermore, the environment of the citadel is a dark side nexus which is confirmed by none other than Lord Scourge himself. There is no argument.
Meetra > hindered Meetra > amped Scourge > Scourge.
He broke the siege, because he turned up and killed them all. You're applying context that doesn't exist.
"On Yn, the Jedi had laid siege to an Imperial stronghold. Tulak Hord broke the siege single-handedly! And then he pressed forward to Jedi-held Chabosh, leaving nothing but Jedi blood in his wake. I never lacked Force to feed on in those days."
―Khem Val, Star Wars The Old Republic
Quantify? Pretty simple stuff:
Three hundred years after Tulak Hord, the Sith Ergast tried to recreate the ritual the Dark Lord used to devour the spirits of his enemies at Yn and Chabosh. In its place, he discovered what he called the ritual of Force-walking. Requiring a Sith of great strength of will, the ritual of Force-walking allows the user to bind the restless ghosts of dead Sith to himself. Once the ghosts are bound, the ritualist may draw from their power, channeling it into a powerful exertion of Force energy against his enemies."
―Force-Walking Codex Entry
If by that you mean ignoring all context and authorial intent, then it most certainly is not. Feat Wars is what turned this place into the cesspool of agendas that it is.
Originally posted by AncientPower
He broke the siege, because he turned up and killed them all. You're applying context that doesn't exist.Quantify? Pretty simple stuff:
If by that you mean ignoring all context and authorial intent, then it most certainly is not. Feat Wars is what turned this place into the cesspool of agendas that it is.
The quote itself is contradicted by actual events since he had Khem Val at his side. It isn't literal as he obviously didn't solo an army of Jedi. His efforts were what led to the ultimate breaking of the siege and without him it may not have been possible which would explain the wording of the text.
Key word there being " in its place" meaning that the techniques may have been similar in function but fundamentally different.
That's rich coming from the one of ( if not the ) biggest Exar Kun wankers in all of Star Wars debating.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Being forced down to one knee isn't holding her ground.If she was focusing on Meetra, wtf was Scourge doing, maybe a sneak attack or something.
She's said to hold her ground in lightsaber skill but is overwhelmed by Nyriss' strength and forced to a knee.
Scourge stumbled over despite her divided attention and Force Pushed Nyriss whilst Nyriss was focusing down Meetra, even then Nyriss was barely nudged by his efforts and his follow-up charge failed because she Force Pushed him so hard he went head over heels and was knocked dizzy. Meanwhile Meetra absorbed most of Nyriss' lightning but was knocked off of her feet.
All of this on a dark side nexus, an advantage for Scourge and a disadvantage for Meetra.
Originally posted by AncientPower
She's said to hold her ground in lightsaber skill but is overwhelmed by Nyriss' strength and forced to a knee.Scourge stumbled over despite her divided attention and Force Pushed Nyriss whilst Nyriss was focusing down Meetra, even then Nyriss was barely nudged by his efforts and his follow-up charge failed because she Force Pushed him so hard he went head over heels and was knocked dizzy. Meanwhile Meetra absorbed most of Nyriss' lightning but was knocked off of her feet.
All of this on a dark side nexus, an advantage for Scourge and a disadvantage for Meetra.
👆
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The quote itself is contradicted by actual events since he had Khem Val at his side. It isn't literal as he obviously didn't solo an army of Jedi. His efforts were what led to the ultimate breaking of the siege and without him it may not have been possible which would explain the wording of the text.Key word there being " in its place" meaning that the techniques may have been similar in function but fundamentally different.
That's rich coming from the one of ( if not the ) biggest Exar Kun wankers in all of Star Wars debating.
Khem Val was at Hord's side whilst he single-handedly broke the siege against an army of a thousand Jedi, which isn't contradictory in the slightest if you actually comprehend the two statements as a whole. You're literally dismissing it without any reason.
Which isn't remotely the point, Tulak Hord absorbed the spirits of the Jedi he killed at Yn and Chabosh, using one of many rituals he had mastered.
Am I meant to care about that? I always apply context to my Kun arguments, it's the counter-arguments that go out of their way to distort the truth.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I do not really care about the sh!t you and Nova debate 🙂 At least not when we debate something other, lol.Also, KoTOR II Exile > TOR Scourge > DK Novel Meetra > DK Novel Scourge 🙂
...I don't ignore his feat. He busted an army. The Exile, and also Kyle, did the same.
Also, Vrook and Saesee are legendary duelists, lmfao. But as I said, he is prolly > Mid-Game Exile as duelist,but that isn't enough to beat the NJO trio.
I rate the Exile not highly because she bested an army, but because she overcame her power-disadvantadge against Traya through superior Skill, on an immense DS Nexus and while prolly exhausted. Traya practically blitzed Atton, who has beaten Sion.
When is Vrook described as a Legendary duelist?
I mean, its great that she did that, and thats all well and good, but its arguable that Meetra was superior to Traya in every way when they fought, including command of the force.
While Meetra fights through 20-30 Sith + Sion and Traya, Hord is fighting through hundreds of Jedi at a single time.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Khem Val was at Hord's side whilst he single-handedly broke the siege against an army of a thousand Jedi, which isn't contradictory in the slightest if you actually comprehend the two statements as a whole. You're literally dismissing it without any reason.Which isn't remotely the point, Tulak Hord absorbed the spirits of the Jedi he killed at Yn and Chabosh, using one of many rituals he had mastered.
Am I meant to care about that? I always apply context to my Kun arguments, it's the counter-arguments that go out of their way to distort the truth.
So, what? Khem stood there doing nothing as Hord was fighting a bunch of Jedi? :/
It is the point because if the way Hord absorbed the spirits isn't like the way we know Nox and others do then we can't quantify the effect that had on his power. Just that it did indeed have one.
Yeah, it's distorting the truth to say that Luke may not have been able to defend against the techniques Kun used against him when that's exactly what happened to Revan and Malak when Vitiate used a technique they didn't know how to defend against against them.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
So, what? Khem stood there doing nothing as Hord was fighting a bunch of Jedi? :/It is the point because if the way Hord absorbed the spirits isn't like the way we know Nox and others do then we can't quantify the effect that had on his power. Just that it did indeed have one.
Yeah, it's distorting the truth to say that Luke may not have been able to defend against the techniques Kun used against him when that's exactly what happened to Revan and Malak when Vitiate used a technique they didn't know how to defend against against them.
"His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks. Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful."
―Tomb of Tulak Hord Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"Tulak Hord - a mighty Sith Lord with legendary lightsaber skills..."
―Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia
"You are still nothing to Tulak Hord. I was the greatest shadow assassin on Urkupp when Tulak Hord challenged me to honorable combat and claimed his victory."
―Khem Val (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"One of Khem Val's proudest victories came during the Battle of Chabosh, where he fought by Tulak Hord's side to conqueror an army of Jedi 1,000 strong."
―Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia
"On Yn, the Jedi had laid siege to an Imperial stronghold. Tulak Hord broke the siege single-handedly! And then he pressed forward to Jedi-held Chabosh, leaving nothing but Jedi blood in his wake. I never lacked Force to feed on in those days."
―Khem Val (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"This was the tomb of Tulak Hord, known as the greatest lightsaber duelist of the Sith Lords. His skill was considered remarkable even in his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived. If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."
―Kreia (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)
"Kreia is setting the stage for what we imagined KOTOR3 to be, and as we had a sense for the power that we wanted those Sith Lords to reveal, her predictions are accurate. And yes, she had a number of Sith holocrons that she had read (the ones on Telos)."
―Chris Avellone (Knights of the Old Republic 2 Head Writer)
"The secrets behind Tulak Hord’s great power were many, and they all but vanished from the galaxy with the Dark Lord’s death. Generations of Sith have obsessed over unearthing his ancient teachings and artifacts, but Tulak Hord hid them well."
―Legacy of Tulak Hord Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
"In his time as Dark Lord of the Sith, Tulak Hord was known as a master of the mystical dark arts of the Force, using his powers to plumb the depths of life and death."
―The Ritual of Tulak Hord Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)