Tulak Hord vs Kyle Katarn, Jaden Korr, and Mara Jade

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, since Khem Val said it, it must be true. Without sarcasm. No one here can come up with anything that invalidates what he, Kreia, or Avellone says, or the tons of quotes about his power.

People need to learn to stop being skeptics when there is no need to be a skeptic.

Being sceptical used to be a survival mechanism which was the difference between being eaten and living through the night. Now it's grounds for being weird or unreasonable, God forbid you asked for some evidence before you went along with something.

There is no difference between you believing Khem Val, and you believing me when I say that I've witnessed our first contact with aliens.

Originally posted by ILS
when I say that I've witnessed our first contact with aliens.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You did? Cooool!

Cool, thx!
But Tulak Hord would solo them all by himself, with his MEGA-SABERSKILLS!

Originally posted by ILS
Since when does one need to invalidate word of mouth? Do you believe everything you hear?
Hence why the human race is getting fatter, dumber and weaker with unrivalled speed in all of history.

Being sceptical used to be a survival mechanism which was the difference between being eaten and living through the night. Now it's grounds for being weird or unreasonable, God forbid you asked for some evidence before you went along with something.

There is no difference between you believing Khem Val, and you believing me when I say that I've witnessed our first contact with aliens.

Not even mentioning the fact that its an in-universe source, and is also supported by Avellone.

I definitely, 100% believe Kreia, Avellone, and Khem Val way more then I believe anyone on this site, thats for sure.

And why shouldn't I? Theres never been a single source describing Hord as less then what he is believed.

Its more clear-cut then a lot of the other Ancients.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh... Yeah. Its stupid to be skeptical for no reason. Khem Val and Traya are supported by tons of accolades and evidence, thats the difference.

Not even mentioning the fact that its an in-universe source, and is also supported by Avellone.

I definitely, 100% believe Kreia, Avellone, and Khem Val way more then I believe anyone on this site, thats for sure.

And why shouldn't I? Theres never been a single source describing Hord as less then what he is believed.

Its more clear-cut then a lot of the other Ancients.

He could be delusional, biased, exaggerating, lying or just wrong.

Originally posted by ILS
If the accolades are verifiable and support your point, you would be better off using them. I'm sceptical of Tulak Hord soloing an army of Jedi and lifting a huge ship because, for all his accolades, the only quotes that truly supports these ideas are from Khem Val. Khem Val hasn't brought any evidence forth to make me believe his stories from a long time ago.

He could be delusional, biased, exaggerating, lying or just wrong.

Its not just Khem Val, either, there are a few other sources that talk about Hord soloing the Siege of Yn.

Either way, I just feel like its better to believe them, because they give us no reason not to believe them. In fact, Khem Val becomes incredibly loyal to your character, so there's reason to believe that he's telling the truth, and not exaggerating.

Until Khem Val, Kreia or any other sources are PROVEN wrong, I think its better to believe them. Because every single accolade says that he's powerful and a legendary duelist.

Plus, Khem Val is an in-universe source, which gives him way more credibility then anyone on KMC has as far as Star Wars goes. I feel like, if its an in-universe quote that hasn't been retconned or disproven, its much better to believe them, rather then not,

You can believe what you want though.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Why do you believe he would lie though? Do you have any reasoning behind that?

In other words, you need to show me that Khem Val is accurate and objective in what he is saying. You can't measure, predict or make any use of something Khem Val said by it's self, which is why we're having a pointless discussion about if we think he's lying or not. It doesn't get us any closer to a real piece of evidence.

As I said, Khem Val could be biased (because he reveres his master), exaggerating (because he's excited/biased), forgetful (it's been a long time), lying (for any number of reasons) or just wrong (his account of the events could simply be inaccurate because they are only from his perspective).

There are so many factors that could disrupt the validity of his statement that it makes it virtually worthless.

Its not just Khem Val, either, there are a few other sources That talk about Hord soloing the Siege of Yn.

Plus, Khem Val is an in-universe source, which gives him way more credibility then anyone on KMC has as far as Star Wars goes. I feel like, if its an in-universe quote that hasn't been retconned or disproven, its much better to believe them, rather then not,

ILS, that's not how proof works. An in-universe source is always acceptable when it's from SWTOR and we like what it tells us.

Originally posted by ILS
For one, it's not my job to prove a negative. "Prove he isn't telling the truth" is asking me to disprove your point. A point which hasn't yet been proven in the first place.

In other words, you need to show me that Khem Val is accurate and objective in what he is saying. You can't measure, predict or make any use of something Khem Val said by it's self, which is why we're having a pointless discussion about if we think he's lying or not. It doesn't get us any closer to a real piece of evidence.

As I said, Khem Val could be biased (because he reveres his master), exaggerating (because he's excited/biased), forgetful (it's been a long time), lying (for any number of reasons) or just wrong (his account of the events could simply be inaccurate because they are only from his perspective).

There are so many factors that could disrupt the validity of his statement that it makes it virtually worthless.
None I have seen in this thread or elsewhere allude to him soloing anything. I'm sure he killed a lot of Jedi, but it was with an army at his back.
Sure. But when someone on KMC is using out-of-universe information, or what is plainly shown to us through the media, their stance becomes stronger than someone who is relying on word of mouth.

Besides that, he has tons of accolades stating his power in the force, and especially his skills with a lightsaber.

Just because Hord was Khem Val's master, doesn't give him reason enough to brag to someone he barely knows, multiple times on multiple different occasions.

I don't care what anyone has ever seen in the media IRL, its irrelevant.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS, that's not how proof works. An in-universe source is always acceptable when it's from SWTOR and we like what it tells us.

I mean, I'm sure you guys have many reasons to distrust Khem Val's word, such as:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS, that's not how proof works. An in-universe source is always acceptable when it's from SWTOR and we like what it tells us.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
No, you said you didn't believe Khem Val's word was trustworthy, I asked you why?

-His word is just that: his word. Just because he said something, it doesn't mean it is true.
-He could be biased
-He could be exaggerating
-He could be lying
-He could be delusional

Again, I gave you the alien example. I could come out and say aliens are real, I played poker with a martian before it probed me up the butt. I might seem genuine and convincing, and have no good reason to lie, but you wouldn't believe me. And if you did, you would be branded insane right alongside me.

This, logically, isn't any different. I would go as far as to say you are a danger to yourself if you believe anything on good faith before getting real evidence for it.

Because oddly enough, power levels are rarely exaggerrated in star wars. Its not even just Khem Val, Hord is consistent in every single one of his accolades. He is confirmed to have beaten at least 2 powerhouses in Khem Val and Aloysius Kallig, as well as the person he beat in the Kaggath, who is unknown to history.

And that is what you can't give me.

Besides that, he has tons of accolades stating his power in the force, and especially his skills with a lightsaber.

Just because Hord was Khem Val's master, doesn't give him reason enough to brag to someone he barely knows, multiple times on multiple different occasions.

I don't care what anyone has ever seen in the media IRL, its irrelevant.

Sure it does. He was in awe of his master. Does, "As wise as Yoda and as powerful as Windu" ring any bells? Just like that example of word of mouth could have, and turned out to be, very wrong, so could Khem Val's.

I meant Star Wars media. If we, the audience, saw Hord killing an army of Jedi by himself, I would believe it. Not because someone said it, because it was verified before my very eyes.

Anyway, I don't see this going anywhere. As you said:

You can believe what you want though.

Team stomps

Kyle or Mara solo. 🙂

👆

Hord's supporting showings are non-existent. We have only Khem's word and one Sith's interpretations. There's nothing that details his feats in any real scope and nothing that fleshes them out. He is one big hype train. Maybe in time we get more discussion of where he falls, but the current sources are horribly bad.

... We're not going to get any more sources regarding Hord...

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Hord's supporting showings are non-existent. We have only Khem's word and one Sith's interpretations. There's nothing that details his feats in any real scope and nothing that fleshes them out. He is one big hype train. Maybe in time we get more discussion of where he falls, but the current sources are horribly bad.

I choose to believe the hype.

We done here?

Great.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
... We're not going to get any more sources regarding Hord...