Originally posted by Jmanghan
You can't be a skeptic without any evidence to the contrary.Hord is just as powerful as everyone says, and thats the end of it.
Unless someone can literally debunk everything said.
Hord is powerful, I never doubted it. I just stated that he has nothing to place him over this team which is still true even after your accolade dump.
None of it needs to be debunked for the oppositions position to remain the same.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
When is Vrook described as a Legendary duelist?I mean, its great that she did that, and thats all well and good, but its arguable that Meetra was superior to Traya in every way when they fought, including command of the force.
While Meetra fights through 20-30 Sith + Sion and Traya, Hord is fighting through hundreds of Jedi at a single time.
Vrook isn't, Kavar is stated to be the famed Jedi Guardian during the Mandalorian Wars by Canderous Ordo. Vrook is confirmed to be > Kavar.
Meetra defeated Traya, despite Traya's superior power whilst amped by the Trayus Core. Furthermore, both Sion and none other than Traya herself state that the Jedi Exile surpasses Traya in the Force.
She fought an entire legion of elite Sith and the Triumvirate's strongest guardians, actually.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
So, what? Khem stood there doing nothing as Hord was fighting a bunch of Jedi? :/It is the point because if the way Hord absorbed the spirits isn't like the way we know Nox and others do then we can't quantify the effect that had on his power. Just that it did indeed have one.
Yeah, it's distorting the truth to say that Luke may not have been able to defend against the techniques Kun used against him when that's exactly what happened to Revan and Malak when Vitiate used a technique they didn't know how to defend against against them.
Or, Tulak Hord did the vast majority of the killing whilst Khem Val was fighting by his side. Which makes sense because Hord was the one who defeated him in the first place.
He outright absorbed the spirits of the Jedi army he left in trails of blood after killing them, he didn't need to bind them to him, because he devoured their power.
You're clearly way off when that is a mere fraction of the debate at hand. 😂
If Khem aided him, however small of a contribution that would have been it invalidates the interpretation that Hord accomplished these feats by himself. He may have been the main factor in such accomplishments but he had help.
He "devoured their spirits" according the quotes you provided, not their power. And as I've already mentioned we don't know to what extent this would have empowered him.
It seems to be the main point that you always ends up avoiding from what I've seen, tbh.
Are you seriously this dense? Khem Val himself is affording the accolade to Tulak Hord, clearly because it was Hord that did the heavy lifting. It invalidates nothing, you are simply reaching.
In the battles of Yn and Chabosh, Tulak Hord is believed to have used a ritual to draw the strength of his enemies to himself, growing his power and vitality.
―The Ritual of Tulak Hord Codex Entry
It amplified his powers, that's the only relevant part.
I'm the one who points out that all his defensive techniques failed him, what are you rambling on about?
How does Khem being present not invalidate the interpretation that Tulak was alone in accomplishing these feats. At the very least it opens up the idea that Tulak had support other then Khem aiding him.
It's relevant and I'm not denying it would have helped to increase his power but I'm saying that we can't know exactly how much this technique increased his power after killing a rival Force user.
Yet you never acknowledge then that it wouldn't have been about Kun overpowering him but simply Luke lacking knowledge on how to defend against it.
Originally posted by AncientPowerKreia has Hord > Karness Murr, Exar Kun, Darth Revan.
Vrook isn't, Kavar is stated to be the famed Jedi Guardian during the Mandalorian Wars by Canderous Ordo. Vrook is confirmed to be > Kavar.Meetra defeated Traya, despite Traya's superior power whilst amped by the Trayus Core. Furthermore, both Sion and none other than Traya herself state that the Jedi Exile surpasses Traya in the Force.
She fought an entire legion of elite Sith and the Triumvirate's strongest guardians, actually.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How does Khem being present not invalidate the interpretation that Tulak was alone in accomplishing these feats. At the very least it opens up the idea that Tulak had support other then Khem aiding him.It's relevant and I'm not denying it would have helped to increase his power but I'm saying that we can't know exactly how much this technique increased his power after killing a rival Force user.
Yet you never acknowledge then that it wouldn't have been about Kun overpowering him but simply Luke lacking knowledge on how to defend against it.
No it doesn't, you're just massively reaching, Khem Val is the one who states Tulak Hord was single-handedly responsible because he was the only other one around. Reading comprehension, please.
Well given how much more powerful Nox was with her binded spirits(From getting one-shotted by Thanaton to dominating him),and given that Hord outright devours his instead of merely binding them, yeh it's damned significant.
Except for the fact it is stated to be a 'titanic duel' of Force powers, which Luke loses. Furthermore numerous quotes make it clear Spirit!Kun > Luke regardless.
Originally posted by AncientPower
No it doesn't, you're just massively reaching, Khem Val is the one who states Tulak Hord was single-handedly responsible because he was the only other one around. Reading comprehension, please.Well given how much more powerful Nox was with her binded spirits(From getting one-shotted by Thanaton to dominating him),and given that Hord outright devours his instead of merely binding them, yeh it's damned significant.
Except for the fact it is stated to be a 'titanic duel' of Force powers, which Luke loses. Furthermore numerous quotes make it clear Spirit!Kun > Luke regardless.
Eh, I'll make one more response before heading off.
How does Khem being the one to state Hord was "single-handedly responsible" mean he was the only other person around?
We don't know how much power Hord gets from devouring those spirits. Whether it's all of it or only a fraction is relevant to assess how powerful he may have become along with the number of enemy Force users he used this technique on.
That's doesn't mean Luke didn't ultimately lose because he was unable to defend against a technique he didn't know how to defend against. I'd love to see some of these Spirit Kun > Luke quotes tbh.
Read both of the quotes and actually try to comprehend what they mean when put side-by-side. Tulak Hord broke the siege of Yn against an army of a thousand Jedi, with Khem Val at his side. Khem Val states Hord did this single-handedly because him amd Hord were obviously the only ones there to break it.
It is clearly greater than the effects of Force-walking, we do know how many there were, the number of Jedi is stated in the above quotes.
Which only furthers how much more knowledgable Kun is.
"What happened to you?"
"Kyp didn't like the menu." I winced as a twing rang through my ribs. "We had a discussion in the hallway, you didn't feel anything?" Heads all around the hallway shook, and I felt a cold dread begin to congeal in my stomach. If Exar Kun could mask the attack on me in such a way that Master Skywalker could not feel it barely fifteen meters away, then we were up against something more powerful than I'd cared to imagine existing.
-_Star Wars: I, Jedi
"Okay. What do you want to do?"Luke looked out at the incoming pirates, a sudden tightening sensation in his stomach. There were many options, of course. He could reach out with the Force and damage the ships’ control surfaces, crippling them. He might even be able to wrench off whole hull plates or deform the weapons emplacements, tearing them apart with the Force alone. Or he could simply reach inside to the crews’ minds, turning them into helpless observers or even forcing them to surrender. For a Jedi Master with the Force as his ally, there were no limits. No limits at all.
And then, abruptly, he stiffened, his breath seeming to freeze in his throat. There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him.
And laughing.
"Luke?"
- Specters of the Past
The above can imply that Luke would become like Emperor Palpatine or Exar Kun if he decided to abuse his powers. Though more conservative views would likely claim otherwise.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Read both of the quotes and actually try to comprehend what they mean when put side-by-side. Tulak Hord broke the siege of Yn against an army of a thousand Jedi, with Khem Val at his side. Khem Val states Hord did this single-handedly because him amd Hord were obviously the only ones there to break it.It is clearly greater than the effects of Force-walking, we do know how many there were, the number of Jedi is stated in the above quotes.
Which only furthers how much more knowledgable Kun is.
The above can imply that Luke would become like Emperor Palpatine or Exar Kun if he decided to abuse his powers. Though more conservative views would likely claim otherwise.
You understand that they very quote contradict itself. It states Hord accomplished these feats singlehandedly yet it states Khmer Val fought at his side. He didn't fight alone. Your interpretation is invalidated.
Why is it clearly greater then the effects of Force walking? There's no basis for that unless you believe he gained all of the power of tens Force used after consuming their spirit which isn't indicated anywhere.
Yes but it lends credence to the idea that the only reason Luke lost was because he couldn't defend himself against whatever techniques Exar Kun employed against him.
The quotes don't suggest that at all. The first merely references Kyp's apprehension at such a powerful force existing while the second merely shows that Exar Kun had been a great challenge like Palpatine but not that he was an equivalent one.
Originally posted by ILSYes, since Khem Val said it, it must be true. Without sarcasm. No one here can come up with anything that invalidates what he, Kreia, or Avellone says, or the tons of quotes about his power.
Well, since Khem Val said it I guess it must be true.Hord stomps!
Just kidding. Also the SWTOR:E is an in-universe source (according to the introductory page), meaning it's basically just hype as well. Poor Tulak.
Its like the whole argument about Novel Blurbs. "They're usually incorrect", based on what exactly? What invalidates what Khem Val or Traya says? Sure, there is such a thing as exaggeration, but the stuff about Hord is consistent, from many different characters proclaiming how great and powerful he was, books written about him, and even eyewitness accounts from his most trusted men.
People need to learn to stop being skeptics when there is no need to be a skeptic.