Prime Anakin/Vader

Originally posted by Rebel95
Isn't the quote from a 3rd person point of view? And you realize objective means it's not influenced by personal feelings, right? Lol, anyways, the same could be said for the picture you posted, it's Palpatine's opinion.

I'm saying that the quote is referring to Anakin/Vader being the most powerful force user in regards to his raw power. Obviously he wasn't stronger than Yoda as Anakin or Sidious as Vader.

And I'm not seeing how he can possess more raw power yet be weaker than them...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And it's written in third person but from the perspective of Vader. And its not Palpatine's opinion, given it says he knew rather than he thought or believed.

Yet that's exactly what it says, that he was more powerful than them. mmm

And I'm not seeing how he can possess more raw power yet be weaker than them...

Because it's referring to the fact that he has the highest potential/midichlorian count, unless you think Anakin/Vader could beat Yoda or Sidious? Which I'm totally fine with lol

Well only one can be correct, either it crippled him, or made him stronger.

And those aren't Canon, they are Legends, in which case a simple reading of the RotS novelisation makes it very clear who is the more powerful, and it's not Vader.

Perhaps, but I think power in the conventional sense is the more obvious reading, in which case defeating Yoda or Sidious in battle isn't necessarily outside his abilities.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well only one can be correct, either it crippled him, or made him stronger.

We've been through this before Beni. It was talking about how powerful Palpatine thought Vader would be now right after his injuries. But He couldn't possibly know his remaining potential until he "tested" him right after, as mentioned in the same text.

On the other hand Vader himself a few years down the line has a better idea of his power set then and before.

Uhuh, what it tells us is that Vader's injuries crippled him in terms of Force ability, which Palpatine observed. A few years down the line and the only thing Vader has developed are delusions.

Originally posted by Rebel95
I think there's more to it than that. Anakin had the greatest raw power/potential of any force user, but he never reached his potential. Then Obi Wan ****ed him up and his potential decreased, but his pain and suffering fed his hate. This gave him more power, and made up for some of that lost potential. At least that's the way I see it, and it kinda helps explain the contradictions.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vader doesn't talk about overcoming weakness though, he says his injuries "perfected his spirit", that's in explicit contradiction to what we're told by the Databank, and what you've theorised here. If Vader was compensating then his spirit was not perfected, it was and is damaged goods.

And also that it perfected his spirit, which is wrong. 👆

I doubt there's a Vader better than the one that trounced Darth Tyranus.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uhuh, what it tells us is that Vader's injuries crippled him in terms of Force ability, which Palpatine observed. A few years down the line and the only thing Vader has developed are delusions.

Where are you getting he was delusional from?

Of course he lost power in ROTS. That's kind of a no brainier. But nothing suggests it didn't even have the potential to match his former self in combat.

In fact given the hype around Ahsoka and Maul's comments, it's kind of a given Vader is at least around Anakin's previous level.

It's only his Raw Power and Potential to whoop Yoda/Palpatine that he'll never recover.

Originally posted by Trocity
I doubt there's a Vader better than the one that trounced Darth Tyranus.

How about the one that Maul shits himself from, or the one that crushes AT-AT's 😬

Originally posted by Darth Thor
How about the one that Maul shits himself from, or the one that crushes AT-AT's 😬

Not better than trouncing Dooku, lol.

Originally posted by MythLord
Not better than trouncing Dooku, lol.

Arguably around the same level though.

No.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Where are you getting he was delusional from?

Of course he lost power in ROTS. That's kind of a no brainier. But nothing suggests it didn't even have the potential to match his former self in combat.

In fact given the hype around Ahsoka and Maul's comments, it's kind of a given Vader is at least around Anakin's previous level.

It's only his Raw Power and Potential to whoop Yoda/Palpatine that he'll never recover.

Beyond that, we don't really have any reason to believe Vader > Anakin. Stomping Dooku if taken at face value is far better his extended engagements against Ahsoka and Kenobi.

Originally posted by MythLord
No.

Show me Anakin doing something (in Canon) on the level of crushing an At-At then and prove Dooku is substantially > Rebels Maul, and I'll concede.

Otherwise you should.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Show me Anakin doing something (in Canon) on the level of crushing an At-At

Crushing the barracks of Mon Calamari. Also Vader didn't crush it. He stopped it's charge and caused it's top to start caving in.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
then and prove Dooku is substantially > Rebels Maul, and I'll concede.

Why would he need to be substantially ahead of Rebels Maul? There's nothing noting Vader is far ahead of him, and Dooku would just need to be slightly ahead of Maul for Zone!Anakin to sh!t on him given how he was trouncing Tyranus.

Also, SoD has an injured Dooku's lightning giving more power to Sidious than Maul's entire channel of dark side energy gave to Talzin, despite them being in the heart of Talzin's power. So that's already enough to infer Dooku is considerably ahead of Maul. 👆

Originally posted by MythLord
Crushing the barracks of Mon Calamari.

I think he's referring to Anakin bringing down that underwater tower in TCW. Also, Beni--pretty sure "perfection of the spirit" in in reference to his mindset. I.E he's no longer conflicted/out of control, and has completed his conversion to the dark side. Still broken and weaker in the Force, though. 🙂