Originally posted by Rebel95
Yeah, Anakin doesn't have any force feats on Vader's level, especially not in canon
Yeah his big feat (minus Mortis) is trouncing Dooku. But given Rebels Maul is no match for Vader, and given Vader's Insane TK feats, I doubt the Dooku win puts him massively ahead of Vader. But tbf he isn't massively beneath Vader either.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Um the fact that he was wrong, his broken body didn't perfect his spirit, and it didn't strengthen his connection to the Force, you've just conceded as much. So his opinions are debunked.
He never claimed his Broken Body strengthened his connection to the Force. He claimed his rage and anger did.
Perfecting his spirit is a pretty silly thing to "debunk". That's obviously down to his beliefs.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Beyond that, we don't really have any reason to believe Vader > Anakin. Stomping Dooku if taken at face value is far better his extended engagements against Ahsoka and Kenobi.
And what about Anakin's extended engagement against Kenobi? Lol
Fact is there's nothing to prove he's weaker. You're even taking ROTS Palpatine's thoughts out of context, given he couldn't know anything beyond ROTS.
Originally posted by MythLord
Crushing the barracks of Mon Calamari. Also Vader didn't crush it. He stopped it's charge and caused it's top to start caving in.
Given the length of time that took, and not done in combat, it's not even close.
Originally posted by MythLord
Why would he need to be substantially ahead of Rebels Maul? There's nothing noting Vader is far ahead of him, and Dooku would just need to be slightly ahead of Maul for Zone!Anakin to sh!t on him given how he was trouncing Tyranus.Also, SoD has an injured Dooku's lightning giving more power to Sidious than Maul's entire channel of dark side energy gave to Talzin, despite them being in the heart of Talzin's power. So that's already enough to infer Dooku is considerably ahead of Maul. 👆
I don't understand any of this.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
But given Rebels Maul is no match for Vader,
Clearly untrue; Ahsoka proved to be a legitimate challenge, and Maul should be at least as well off as she. At best, you could argue Maul's chances of victory were too poor for him to want to go for it. Which, keeping in mind that Rebels Maul is not as strong as he was at his peak, is not nearly as impressive as being able to trounce Dooku.
Originally posted by Darth Thor"His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight."
He never claimed his Broken Body strengthened his connection to the Force. He claimed his rage and anger did.Perfecting his spirit is a pretty silly thing to "debunk". That's obviously down to his beliefs.
Wrong I'm afraid.
And of course this all comes down to his beliefs, Vader believes that his broken body made him stronger, but this is simply not the case, ergo. his beliefs are unreliable.
And what about Anakin's extended engagement against Kenobi? LolHe was emotionally compromised. Evidently.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Given the length of time that took, and not done in combat, it's not even close.
Given Anakin grew vastly, and was manipulating a larger object... it does.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I don't understand any of this.
> No proof Vader is substantially ahead of Maul, besides Maul's lies
> Dooku would be substantially ahead of SoD Maul, given he aided Sidious to a greater affect than Maul did Talzin, despite being in a far worse state to do so
> Zone!Anakin is >> Dooku, who is > SoD Maul. So Zone!Anakin would be substantially ahead of even Rebels Maul if you buy into him growing more powerful
We done here?
Anyone else but me find it weird that Anakin/Vader or well Vader is suppose to be one of the strongest Force Users in the mythos(full potential aside), yet we see him rather lackluster compared to a good chunk of Force Users in terms of Force abilities?
I mean aside from The Ones showing...it's like he just seems...I dunno, average compared to what his potential is?
I get that he can't be like tapping into his full potential or anything, but he still has ridiculous reserves of power and yet what he does tap into....I'm not really getting this whole Chosen One vibe.
Not sure if my wording makes sense, but hopefully the gist of it is there.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Anyone else but me find it weird that Anakin/Vader or well Anakin* is suppose to be one of the strongest Force Users in the mythos(full potential aside), yet we see him rather lackluster compared to a good chunk of Force Users in terms of Force abilities?I mean aside from The Ones showing...it's like he just seems...I dunno, average compared to what his potential is?
I get that he can't be like tapping into his full potential or anything, but he still has ridiculous reserves of power and yet what he does tap into....I'm not really getting this whole Chosen One vibe.
Not sure if my wording makes sense, but hopefully the gist of it is there.
Anakin* not Vader.
Originally posted by MythLord
Given Anakin grew vastly, and was manipulating a larger object... it does.
A larger object, but took a lot more time, was not applicable in combat and not nearly as indestructible as an AT-AT.
"Grew vastly" is not a quantifiable feat.
Originally posted by MythLord> No proof Vader is substantially ahead of Maul, besides Maul's lies
> Dooku would be substantially ahead of SoD Maul, given he aided Sidious to a greater affect than Maul did Talzin, despite being in a far worse state to do so
> Zone!Anakin is >> Dooku, who is > SoD Maul. So Zone!Anakin would be substantially ahead of even Rebels Maul if you buy into him growing more powerfulWe done here?
> Ah so despite Maul admitting it, and Everyone working on the Rebels crew confirming it, including Maul's own voice actor, you're just going to pretend it isn't true.. So... Denial much?
> Worst logic ever. Dooku was shooting Lightning directly, Maul was adding power to Talzin's. A messy comparison to say the least, and no proof at all how that would translate into a Saber fight between the 2.
> This Zone!Anakin you speak off might have only lasted a few seconds. Sure he was more powerful than Dooku, but if he was consistently so Uber, and able to "stomp" Dooku anytime, then surely he wouldn't have got drop kicked and incapacitated for almost 10 seconds. Raw power of inconsistent use only goes so far.
Given Vader is also substantially ahead of Maul, I don't see what you're trying to prove.
Yes I think I am done.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
"His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight."Wrong I'm afraid.
And of course this all comes down to his beliefs, Vader believes that his broken body made him stronger, but this is simply not the case, ergo. his beliefs are unreliable.
The suffering from his injuries perfected his spirit (I.e. His connection to the dark side) and hence his connection to the Force.
Just like Maul's injuries did.
Or was TCW/SOD Maul also weaker than TPM Maul?
There's literally no reason not to believe Vader that he's built a stronger and more consistent connection to the Force over time.
Originally posted by BeniboyblingHe was emotionally compromised. Evidently.
Given it's quite usual for Anakin to perform inconsistently (heck happens in the Dooku fight), that excuse only goes so far like ares has pointed out. Sure he was more powerful than Kenobi, but after that fight it's pretty laughable to rank him ahead of Vader based on the Vader vs Ben fight.
Vader also solidly overpowered Ahsoka whose likely a peer of ROTS Kenobi.
And The older Vader was overpowering the older Kenobi as well.
Not the mention..you know.. AT-AT crushing fears beyond Anakin. I can bring up more canon Vader feats if you like this prove that wasn't some one-off case.
Originally posted by Darth ThorExcept that just didn't happen, Anakin has a stronger and purer connection to the Force than Vader, period. You've already conceded this is the case, just for some reason are having trouble working out why it makes Vader wrong.
The suffering from his injuries perfected his spirit (I.e. His connection to the dark side) and hence his connection to the Force.Just like Maul's injuries did.
Or was TCW/SOD Maul also weaker than TPM Maul?
And you can make whatever assumptions regarding Maul that you like, doesn't change the facts regarding Vader.
There's literally no reason not to believe Vader that he's built a stronger and more consistent connection to the Force over time.There are plenty of reasons, foremost among them being that Sidious sought to replace him with Luke, who using his stronger connection to the Force, utterly obliterated him in combat.
Where was Vader's stronger and more consistent connection to the Force then?
Given it's quite usual for Anakin to perform inconsistently (heck happens in the Dooku fight), that excuse only goes so far like ares has pointed out. Sure he was more powerful than Kenobi, but after that fight it's pretty laughable to rank him ahead of Vader based on the Vader vs Ben fight.Anakin is easily influenced by his emotions yes, what is this supposed to prove other than his performance against Kenobi being an outlier? Bearing in mind that this was the original intention of the fight according to Nick Gillard.
Vader also solidly overpowered Ahsoka whose likely a peer of ROTS Kenobi.He did nothing of the sort, Ahsoka had an advantage over him at beginning of the duel, and even after 1:30 of fighting, he still hadn't managed to penetrate her defenses. And Vader failed to penetrate Kenobi's defenses either, over a similar span of time.And The older Vader was overpowering the older Kenobi as well.
Anakin dismantled Dooku in 15 seconds, there is no comparison.
Not the mention..you know.. AT-AT crushing fears beyond Anakin. I can bring up more canon Vader feats if you like this prove that wasn't some one-off case.On what basis?
And if you have some means of proving they are "far beyond" Anakin, by all means knock yourself out.
But if your answer is "well Anakin hasn't done nuffin similar and he could't overpower kenobi!!11!!" then pls don't waste my time. 🙂
Originally posted by Darth Thor
A larger object, but took a lot more time, was not applicable in combat and not nearly as indestructible as an AT-AT.
Quantify why an already damaged vehicle is more indestructable than barracks meant to shield royalty incase of a massive war?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
"Grew vastly" is not a quantifiable feat.
It means he can pull it off at the drop of a hat later on, Einstein.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
> Ah so despite Maul admitting it, and Everyone working on the Rebels crew confirming it, including Maul's own voice actor, you're just going to pretend it isn't true.. So... Denial much?
They all say Vader is > Maul(though Maul is lying, for obvious reasons), but never say substantially. You're making it out like it's a big margin, despite Maul's inferior(Ahsoka) giving Vader hell on her own.
I don't want to hear your fanfiction.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
> Worst logic ever. Dooku was shooting Lightning directly, Maul was adding power to Talzin's. A messy comparison to say the least, and no proof at all how that would translate into a Saber fight between the 2.
Yes, Maul was adding power directly into Talzin. Dooku, who was injured, could only add a portion of his power through lightning to Sidious. It makes Tyranus look even better that he aided Sidious to a much greater extent than Maul did Talzin, despite being in a much worse state and offer less of his power.
The comparison is valid because raw power vs raw power has no circumstantial "form advantage" or anything like that. It's simple power against power, and Dooku's came out on top.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
> This Zone!Anakin you speak off might have only lasted a few seconds. Sure he was more powerful than Dooku, but if he was consistently so Uber, and able to "stomp" Dooku anytime, then surely he wouldn't have got drop kicked and incapacitated for almost 10 seconds. Raw power of inconsistent use only goes so far.
Given Vader is also substantially ahead of Maul, I don't see what you're trying to prove.
The Zone!Anakin refers to the enraged Anakin at the end of the fight on the Invisible Hand, dingus, not the one who Dooku was kicking back just a moment prior. When he goes full rage, he kills Dooku in the span of a few seconds. Maul would die in five, honestly. You can tote around how Vader's "substantially more powerful than Maul", he can't kill him in five seconds. Zone!Anakin can.