Originally posted by h1a8
A child could give Batman or Cap a hard time if there is a plot device. Doesn't take anything away from Batman or Cap. Joker couldn't last a hit second in a straight h2h fight against Batman.
Ah, so now it's plot device. Don't you ever get embarrassed by how often you need to come up with these excuses?
Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. They obviously found him a little bit after he plunged into the water. They could have did something then.
Prove it. Should be easy, seeing as you said it's "obvious".
Originally posted by h1a8
Batman is elite so my comparison is fair. My point is you guys are wanking WA and Cap far beyond the truth of things.
That statement is not about Batman, Cap or Bucky. It's about their opponents, and how you are trying to compare featless fodder to people like Black Widow, while ignoring how people of actual proven skill did against him. No one is wanking anything. You're the one blatantly trying to downplay things. A fair comparison would be to look at how Ra's did against Baleman vs how Black Widow did against WS. So, no, your comparison is not fair at all.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Prove it. Should be easy, seeing as you said it's "obvious".That statement is not about Batman, Cap or Bucky. It's about their opponents, and how you are trying to compare featless fodder to people like Black Widow, while ignoring how people of actual proven skill did against him. No one is wanking anything. You're the one blatantly trying to downplay things. A fair comparison would be to look at how Ra's did against Baleman vs how Black Widow did against WS. So, no, your comparison is not fair at all.
He killed Tony's parents and did missions far before they found Cap. Thus they found him a little after he plunged.
You misunderstand. I'm comparing shield agents to Batman and Bane. They were able to dodge WS and hit him. I'm not comparing fodder to BW. In all honesty, we don't know how long she will last against WS in straight h2h without doing a silly leg grab.
Originally posted by h1a8
He killed Tony's parents and did missions far before they found Cap. Thus they found him a little after he plunged.
That's not proof at all. He killed Tony's parents decades after WW2. Again, this is something that is made clear in CA:CW. They could have found him a day later, or a week later, or even a month later, and it would have made little difference to his overall Hydra career. So, what you said means nothing.
Originally posted by h1a8
You misunderstand. I'm comparing shield agents to Batman and Bane. They were able to dodge WS and hit him. I'm not comparing fodder to BW. In all honesty, we don't know how long she will last against WS in straight h2h without doing a silly leg grab.
You have made this claim before (without backing it), and I have addressed it before. She and Agent 13 started with pure H2H (knee, kicks and groin strike). It had no notable effect. And moves like the one she used on him are moves she has used throughout her entire MCU career (and, in this instance, combined it with elbow strikes to the head). That's how she fights. But, hey, prove she would have done better if she had adopted a fighting style that contradicts how she always fights.
Originally posted by h1a8
Its true though. Also there is no evidence that Joker even hurt Batman at all.
Well if that's the case then I can also say that Tony Stark, Black Widow and Agent 13 landing hits on WS were all just plot devices as well.
Batman taking out those 21 thugs you keep mentioning is also just a plot device.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerCW explained and showed how they created them all. He didn't have a metal arm when he went into the water.
That's not proof at all. He killed Tony's parents decades after WW2. Again, this is something that is made clear in CA:CW. They could have found him a day later, or a week later, or even a month later, and it would have made little difference to his overall Hydra career. So, what you said means nothing.You have made this claim before (without backing it), and I have addressed it before. She and Agent 13 started with pure H2H (knee, kicks and groin strike). It had no notable effect. And moves like the one she used on him are moves she has used throughout her [B]entire
MCU career (and, in this instance, combined it with elbow strikes to the head). That's how she fights. But, hey, prove she would have done better if she had adopted a fighting style that contradicts how she always fights. [/B]
I'm not talking about strike power. I'm talking about reflexes and attack speed.
Humans had the reflexes and speed to dodge and hit him. So It's not impossible for a human to do as you were implying.
She doesn't do that all the time. She took out multiple people without doing that silly shit.
Originally posted by h1a8
The plot device was "dogs". In a straight fight, such things don't exist.
Oh, you mean a plot device like "hand armor that shoots a pulse blast" like Tony used on WS? Funny how you keep using that scene to depict that WS can get hit by normal humans yet never blamed plot device.
Double standard much?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh, you mean a plot device like "hand armor that shoots a pulse blast" like Tony used on WS? Funny how you keep using that scene to depict that WS can get hit by normal humans yet never blamed plot device.Double standard much?
I never referenced that scene as WS getting hit by humans.
Originally posted by h1a8
CW explained and showed how they created them all. He didn't have a metal arm when he went into the water.
This was after they completed him.
No shit he didn't have the metal arm then. His real one was still intact at that point. None of the other super soldiers they created had metal limbs. Which means he likely damaged it severely at some point (likely during the fall), hence why it was replaced. So, again, your statements prove nothing, and provide zero evidence of a time line as to when they found him after his fall.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not talking about strike power. I'm talking about reflexes and attack speed.
Humans had the reflexes and speed to dodge and hit him. So It's not impossible for a human to do as you were implying.She doesn't do that all the time. She took out multiple people without doing that silly shit.
Then, like I said, prove she could have done better while fighting differently. Saying it's "not impossible" is not proof of anything. She has pulled moves like that several times during her MCU career, and virtually always successfully. But keep labeling techniques that Black Widow has repeatedly utilised (with positive end results) as "silly shit".
Just to expand on my point, a very small number of exceptional humans have shown the ability to briefly dodge and hit him. None of them have shown any sign that they can do it over an extended period of time. People like Captain America and Black Panther have also dodged some of his hits, but he has also landed plenty of hits on both of them. And, unlike Cap and T'Challa, those humans don't have the enhanced strength, durability and stamina to suggest they can maintain that kind of fight against him. Furthermore, it's also "not impossible" that Winter Soldier could land a metal arm haymaker right to BW's face, early in a fight, and kill her. So, "not impossible" What Ifs don't mean anything.
Originally posted by FrothByteNo I didn't. Tony never hit WS as far as I know. I referenced the Tony scene as evidence that a human can tank WS hits without being koed. The other fighter(s) managed to tag WS.
Oh yes you did. You kept mentioning how Tony Stark was able to land hits on WS as proof that regular humans have no trouble hitting WS. Lie some more why don't you.