Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that Marvel had tried to push one above all others, in fact I said the opposite. When I said Superman clones I meant the flying brick archtype that are obvously based on Supes. And despite their origins, Glads and Hype are obviously more than simple villains, yet they never really catch on with Marvel's mainstream fans. That's why we keep getting new versions of Hyperion... cause they always end up tanking.
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it's funny that people are so focused on feats in this thread. of course superman over the years has feats to compete with anyone in marvel, but in determining his place would marvel would go far beyond his feats. that anyone would think he wouldn't be among the same tier as marvel's arguably most powerful is pretty unbelievable. they'd be taking superman--not any single version, but the character as a whole. and as a whole, he is still the greatest single comic book character out there imo. THAT is how marvel would see him i think (because so many people out there already see him as that, and those people go FAR beyond comic book fans in general) and so that is how he would be portrayed, at least for the most part. imo.
lol i suspect i know the PERSON to whom you refer.... forum settings are funny places. people (persons...) tend to forget that "feats" are....pretty meaningless to people in general. almost everyone in the world recognizes the brand that is superman. of those people, what, a tiny fraction maybe, could name some of his 'feats'. they don't care about feats. they care about name.
Based on feats. Superman would rank among the top tiers due to his feats. For the same reasons Silver Surfer would earn a high ranking in DC.
But! I strongly disagree that Superman stature in DC would rollover into Marvel. To think so is fundamentally FLAWED. Superman is DC's golden child, because DC invested time, and story arcs to raise Superman to be the go to guy when shit gets real with righteousness.
How the hell would Marvel transition that, when those spots are being occupied by Thor and Captain America?
Thor being the go to guy for heavy shit.
Captain America righteous American super hero.
Originally posted by "Id"
[b]Based on feats. Superman would rank among the top tiers due to his feats. For the same reasons Silver Surfer would earn a high ranking in DC.But! I strongly disagree that Superman stature in DC would rollover into Marvel. To think so is fundamentally FLAWED. Superman is DC's golden child, because DC invested time, and story arcs to raise Superman to be the go to guy when shit gets real with righteousness.
How the hell would Marvel transition that, when Marvel has invsted by Hulk and Captain America?
Hulk being the go to guy for heavy shit.
Captain America [/B]
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Agree with this minus a few hiccups.
Originally posted by "Id"
[b]Based on feats. Superman would rank among the top tiers due to his feats. For the same reasons Silver Surfer would earn a high ranking in DC.But! I strongly disagree that Superman stature in DC would rollover into Marvel. To think so is fundamentally FLAWED. Superman is DC's golden child, because DC invested time, and story arcs to raise Superman to be the go to guy when shit gets real with righteousness.
How the hell would Marvel transition that, when those spots are being occupied by Thor and Captain America?
Thor being the go to guy for heavy shit.
Captain America righteous American super hero. [/B]
i'm legit curious about this. so, recognizing this is purely hypothetical, obviously, but you think that if marvel somehow acquired the rights to superman, that they would actively LESSEN his character? the flaw as i see it in your stance is this: superman isn't just 'big' in dc, like batman isn't, or spiderman for that matter, he is BIG in the comics industry and more importantly, in pop culture as a whole. he is LITERALLY the archetypal superhero, the one EVERYONE knows. ask a billion people to name a superhero and 99.9% will name HIM. for marvel to assume the superman character, then....make him LESS than what he is, would make no sense from...any pov really, certainly not a monetary standpoint. he sells because he is what he is. hell, bryne TRIED 'marvelizing' him, and we all know how well THAT went....
now, in spite of constant misconceptions, i've never said superman would take over the number one spot in marvel, or if he did so initially, they would rein him in somewhat until he settled among the ARGUABLY most powerful heroes they have.
but again, out of curiosity--you stated thor as marvel's go-to-heavy-hitter-guy. when was the last time thor played that role exactly? when was the last cosmic arc that THOR was the decisive factor in? for that matter, when was the last time surfer played the pivotal role in a big arc and ended up saving the day? maybe something very current is happening that i'm unaware of?
marvel's is and has been for a long time, more a flavor-of-the-month approach, so, again, contrary to a lot of what i'm reading, there is absolutely a spot available for someone to assume the role of constant heavy hitter. would superman take that role in marvel? no. i don't think so, because that would take a monumental shift in their overall approach. but he'd definitely be in the rotation of heavy hitter to save the day. at least imo.
on a side note--you looking forward to the netflix series LEGION?? i can't wait tbh.
def looking forward to legion.
I also agree with the flavor of the month routine that Marvel tends to do. that being said I agree with ID.
In DC superman would be the best of the best without question top dog. in marvel he wouldn't be. he would be a top dog probably because of the flavor of the month thing but he will in no way be pinnacle that he is in DC. thus diminished stature
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm legit curious about this. so, recognizing this is purely hypothetical, obviously, but you think that if marvel somehow acquired the rights to superman, that they would actively LESSEN his character? the flaw as i see it in your stance is this: superman isn't just 'big' in dc, like batman isn't, or spiderman for that matter, he is BIG in the comics industry and more importantly, in pop culture as a whole. he is LITERALLY the archetypal superhero, the one EVERYONE knows. ask a billion people to name a superhero and 99.9% will name HIM. for marvel to assume the superman character, then....make him LESS than what he is, would make no sense from...any pov really, certainly not a monetary standpoint. he sells because he is what he is. hell, bryne TRIED 'marvelizing' him, and we all know how well THAT went....now, in spite of constant misconceptions, i've never said superman would take over the number one spot in marvel, or if he did so initially, they would rein him in somewhat until he settled among the ARGUABLY most powerful heroes they have.
but again, out of curiosity--you stated thor as marvel's go-to-heavy-hitter-guy. when was the last time thor played that role exactly? when was the last cosmic arc that THOR was the decisive factor in? for that matter, when was the last time surfer played the pivotal role in a big arc and ended up saving the day? maybe something very current is happening that i'm unaware of?
marvel's is and has been for a long time, more a flavor-of-the-month approach, so, again, contrary to a lot of what i'm reading, there is absolutely a spot available for someone to assume the role of constant heavy hitter. would superman take that role in marvel? no. i don't think so, because that would take a monumental shift in their overall approach. but he'd definitely be in the rotation of heavy hitter to save the day. at least imo.
on a side note--you looking forward to the netflix series LEGION?? i can't wait tbh.
If Marvel somehow acquired Superman...no his stature from DC will not rollover to Marvel. Of that I am positive. Initially he will have a splash impact for being Superman, with readers closely following how Superman reacts to this new world.
But long term, the way Marvel rolls with their events. No I cant see him written the way DC does it.
Marvel and DC approach big events, and in-house events differently. And you touched on one them "Marvel is more a flavor-of-the-month approach".
How can Superman continue be this Icon, when Marvel favors resolutions to be handled with team effort and/or a plot device?
Yes I feel Thor is the go to guy for heavy shit in Marvel. He may not be written as prominent as Superman. But he was conceived partially as a direct response to introduce something greater than Superman, and what would be greater than a Superman how about a God! Something along those lines by Stan Lee.
No I am not excited about Legion. I will watch it. But I expect nothing.
Originally posted by leonidas
lol i suspect i know the PERSON to whom you refer.... forum settings are funny places. people (persons...) tend to forget that "feats" are....pretty meaningless to people in general. almost everyone in the world recognizes the brand that is superman. of those people, what, a tiny fraction maybe, could name some of his 'feats'. they don't care about feats. they care about name.
Agree on your take, though, as far as everyone else is concerned. Really well said. 👆
Used properly, I could see Superman in the top 10 easily. There are a lot of herald level characters in Marvel.
In no particular order, and assuming that villains/anti-heroes can be used.
Sentry, Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Blue Marvel, Stardust, Beta Ray Bill, Starbrand (for now), Dr. Strange, Magneto (under certain writers), King Hyperion, Anti Man, Monica Rambeau, Quasar, Juggernaut, Exodus, Apocalypse, Dark Angel, etc.. Long list, and I've only made mention of a portion of them.
Originally posted by "Id"
If Marvel somehow acquired Superman...no his stature from DC will not rollover to Marvel. Of that I am positive. Initially he will have a splash impact for being Superman, with readers closely following how Superman reacts to this new world.But long term, the way Marvel rolls with their events. No I cant see him written the way DC does it.
Marvel and DC approach big events, and in-house events differently. And you touched on one them "Marvel is more a flavor-of-the-month approach".
How can Superman continue be this Icon, when Marvel favors resolutions to be handled with team effort and/or a plot device?
Yes I feel Thor is the go to guy for heavy shit in Marvel. He may not be written as prominent as Superman. But he was conceived partially as a direct response to introduce something greater than Superman, and what would be greater than a Superman how about a God! Something along those lines by Stan Lee.
No I am not excited about Legion. I will watch it. But I expect nothing.
👆
Originally posted by Stoic
Used properly, I could see Superman in the top 10 easily. There are a lot of herald level characters in Marvel.In no particular order, and assuming that villains/anti-heroes can be used.
Sentry, Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Blue Marvel, Stardust, Beta Ray Bill, Starbrand (for now), Dr. Strange, Magneto (under certain writers), King Hyperion, Anti Man, Monica Rambeau, Quasar, Juggernaut, Exodus, Apocalypse, Dark Angel, etc.. Long list, and I've only made mention of a portion of them.
The top ones are Thor, Surfer, and Hulk and he isn't taking any of their places in Marvel hierarchy. Ain't happening.