Originally posted by Beniboybling
In what way? Do you dispute the fact that all seven of these countries have Muslim majority populations? Furthermore the Trump administration have said that they plan to broaden the ban to include more countries, so what is your point regarding Indonesia?And I'm making a case for why its designed to target Islam, come up with justifications in your own time.
Is it or is it not a Muslim ban: no, it is not a Muslim Ban.
You can add things from the past or the future. But this is only about the Executive Order and I'm not talking about anything else.
It's not a Muslim Ban.
Oh, and Indonesia...
Almost 90% of the population is Muslim.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL?locations=ID
Population is almost about 250 million.
That's 225 million Muslims...there about.
Population of Iraq: ~34 million
Yemen: ~25 million
Sudan: ~38 million
Syria: ~ 23 million
Libya: ~6 million
Iran: ~78
Somalia: ~11
Total: ~215 million
And I rounded up on all of those countries to be fair.
Is 225>215?
Yes.
Then I don't even need to do population percentages of Muslims in each country to make the point.
If Trump's policy was REALLY about banning Muslims, then he could target just Indonesia, alone, and have a greater affected population, right? Your point about it being a Muslims ban would be even better made if it only targeted Indonesia, right? There are more Muslims in that country than all 7 other countries populations' combined. Why don't you think this is a good point? Is it because it is only 1 country? Because I think that it's only 7 countries out of over 30 is the same thing. I also think that since the countries targeted are clearly unstable countries who are rife with terrorism and anti-US activities, it makes it far harder to call this a "Muslim Ban." An since UK Intelligence has also identified this as hot beds of terrorism and has travel advisories for them, too, then it is independently confirmed from US Intelligence. Lastly, since even the Obama Administration identified and singled out these countries are being high-risk, then there is no conceivable way to consider this a "Muslim Ban."
Originally posted by Beniboybling
My bad I misremembered, the order does nonetheless priorities religious minorities over Muslims, which only goes to highlight its [b]biased.[/B]
Did you know that these refugees that you tried to pretend were just given a free pass, still have to (or had to) wait 120 days? That's right, even minority religions, who still have to go through the existing Refugee application process to get approved, still could not get full refugee status for 120 days (and it was called a "stay"😉. It's still hardly the narrative you tried to pass as truth. Now, if I was a bible-thumping, Trumpdick-Sucking, conservative, this particular point would shatter the notion that Trump is being oh-so benevolent and accepting of my Christian brothers and sisters stuck in this terror-ridden states.
Also, forgiven for miss-remembering and my bad for accusing you of trying to lie. No one is being intellectually honest in these conversations anymore so I don't not believe anyone is being an honest participant until proven otherwise.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh yes, my jimmies are well and truly rustled.
Arguing with an informed American Liberal who challenges your biases would make most people uncomfortable.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
But did you have a point? Or is this just a cheap attempt to sidestep the point? Do you concede that Trump made it very clear from the start of his campaign that he wanted to place a ban on Muslims, and that this was indeed his attempt to implement that ban legally (because discriminatory laws are illegal!)?
Quote stuff got messed up so I'll try to answer all of it, here. Also, it was clear from his campaign that he didn't want to ban all Muslims. There's not a single quote out there where Trump states that he wants to ban all Muslims. The closest he gets is he definitely wants to ban all Muslims from coming into the country (and that's a paraphrase...the language is actually a bit softer than that but I'm not going to give Trump any kindness).
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Trump's calling it a ban. Take it up with him. Would it assuage your anal attentiveness if I used the term "extreme vetting"?
But it's not a Muslim Ban. An immigration ban from 7 countries? Not even that. But there's no way anyone can, in their right and honest mind, call it a "Muslim Ban." But it is definitely more strict vetting. It's not even that much more strict, actually. Travel ban? I guess.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
An irrelevant question, simply because the ban does not effect all Muslims around the world does not exclude it from being discriminatory against them.
I mean...this is as close to a concession I will get from you. You indirectly admit that while this has a disparate impact on ***MUSLIMS FROM THOSE 7 COUNTRIES***, it's not a ban. So, yeah, I think we talked ourselves into almost agreeing with each other.
Also, it is not an irrelevant question. It is literally the very crux of what this entire conversation is about. If Muslims from those 7 countries could get into the US during even the most strict enforcement of the executive order, then it was never a Muslims Ban as people like you claimed. Of course, you would want to throw that question out...it destroys your entire point if the answer to that question is "no."
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No. Not until restrictions were forcibly lifted/entirely revoked. 😐
You're factually incorrect. Muslims from those 7 countries were able to get into the US even during the strictest enforcement of the executive order. Even CNN reported that 170 green card holders were allowed in and only 2 turned away, when the restrictions were at their hottest:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban-green-card-dual-citizens/
But wait...since it was easy to prove you wrong, here, does this mean you changed your mind? You were presented with what appears to be new evidence so do you agree that it wasn't a true Muslims Ban for even those 7 countries? I hope so. I hope this was a convincing argument. 🙁
But, as they say, no amount of evidence will ever convince people who are emotionally attached to their beliefs. I may have just polarized you further away by presenting evidence. If that is the case, then this discussion is over and I tried.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand, does even the most shallow of attempts to interrogate the intent behind this ban reveals its anti-Muslim biased? Yeeesss.
I mean...does it really? Because this supposed Muslim Ban only targeted 7 countries and more than 92% of the Muslim population was unaffected by this.
I do, however, agree with you that Trump has anti-Muslim bias and this may be the first of many racist steps he takes against ARABS. But not all people impacted are straight-up Arabs...
So I'm not even sure how racist he really is. Maybe he's mixing in non-Arab countries to throw people off his trail?
Or, perhaps, and this is what I really believe (but it is not wholly what I think he's doing but it explains at least part of his actions), he's just riding on the back of the Obama Administration's work. In other words, he doesn't know what he's doing and is just picking up much of Obama's unfinished work and running with it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Just a little andectote darling, are you really going to criticise me for that despite going on an irrelevant tirade about abortion-related double standards in the OP? I provided you a safe space to vent, please have the common decency to return the favour. 🙁
Yeah, I am and for good reasons:
1. My point was about Muslim Refugees and the hypocrisy of the left about the situation in the US.
2. The example was a comparative used to demonstrate that hypocrisy from the American left.
3. I'm OP, this is my thread, I literally set the topic of discussion.
4. We were talking about a particular point and in multiple ways, you tried to move the topic somewhere else. I don't want to talk about those things. I don't want to debate them, either. I was only laser focused on just one topic: "Trump's executive order regarding those 7 countries: is it a Muslim Ban?"
Also, if you don't like the self-righteous hypocrisy that I pointed out from many from the American Left, you do not have to participate in the thread or at least avoid that topic.
I also pointed out how many conservatives are calloused assholes but you're not jumping all over that point. Why? It seems like you have a ton to say that we would agree about.