Scathan vs. Great Evil Beast
Scathan vs. Great Evil Beast
Originally posted by MrMindGEB=Presence, aka Supreme Being
you can add in Protege on Scathan side and GEB still wins
Who would be the equivalent of the Presence / Great Evil Beast in Marvel comics? It can't be The One Above All, because The One Above All stomps Presence / Great Evil Beast / Michael / Luficer / Over-Monitor and so on at the same time. The One Above All has the advantage of being a metatextual entity (writer), while there are outside forces even above the Presence (the writers).
Who is THE SECOND in command in the Marvel universe? Back in the day the general idea was that it was Living Tribunal, until Living Tribunal got outworked by Protege and saved by Scathan. (Not counting Pre Retcon Beyonder and Pre Retcon Molecule Man.) So Scathan ranks quite highly on the cosmic tier list.
I've tried keeping up with the Marvel cosmic hierarchy from the last decade. This might be super wrong now, but in my mind the top three in the entire Marvel universe are:
1. The One Above All
2. Fulcrum / Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial
3. Scathan
I don't know where to place the Beyonders (Ivory Kings). Three of them killed the Living Tribunal. Would one of them been able to replicate that feat? I don't know. Would the three of them be able to defeat Scathan? I don't know. Would one of them be able to defeat Scathan? I kinda don't think so.
Then the question becomes how far above Scathan are Fulcrum and Tiamut?
Are the Presence and the GEB on the same level as Fulcrum and Tiamut? Or are they above Fulcrum and Tiamut?
I would say no matter how you view it, they should be above Scathan and beat him by the same margin Fulcrum / Tiamut would beat him.
Take all of this with a grain of salt though.
Originally posted by Enzeru
The One Above All stomps Presence / Great Evil Beast / Michael / Luficer / Over-Monitor and so on at the same time. The One Above All has the advantage of being a metatextual entity (writer), while there are outside forces even above the Presence (the writers).
this right there is why I love marvel fan's willing ignorant
I debated this topic 10 years ago and here we go again...sigh...
in dc, grant morrison appeared as a character in animal man as the writer,http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Grant_Morrison_(New_Earth)
if you want to go that route, TOAA=Grant Morrison 😆 😆
I really don't know which idiot started the writer>the supreme being of a company trend. Please someone explain to me how does being the writer make TOAA more powerful than Presence
from in comic in universe perspective, omnipotent is omnipotent, Presence and TOAA are both omnipotent. unless you want to say one omnipotent> the other, there aren't any arguments to be made. fact is dc has multiple supreme beings Marvel only has one,(TOAA=Presence=GEB, Over Moniter is the representation of blank page ) so no TOAA ain't stomping anyone, in fact TOAA get stomped.
Originally posted by EnzeruTake all of this with a grain of salt though.
oh trust me I do. any one supreme being> another is just company bias, just like you favor marvel or me favor dc. it gets tiresome.
😂 😂 😆
Originally posted by MrMindthis right there is why I love marvel fan's willing ignorant
That is unnecessary.
Originally posted by MrMindI really don't know which idiot started the writer>the supreme being of a company trend. Please someone explain to me how does being the writer make TOAA more powerful than Presence
The One Above All created the Presence.
https://i.imgur.com/zyBhbJ1.jpg
Originally posted by MrMindfrom in comic in universe perspective, omnipotent is omnipotent, Presence and TOAA are both omnipotent. unless you want to say one omnipotent > the other, there aren't any arguments to be made.
I never said that the Presence isn't omnipotent. In his respective universe he is omnipotent. I just said, that The One Above All has the massive advantage of being a metatextual entity. The One Above All is the avatar of the writer. The Presence is a character, created by the writer.
Your Grant Morrison example doesn't hold up at all. Grant Morrison was kinda mainly there for the Animal Man story, where The One Above All reigns supreme over the entire Marvel omniverse. Grant Morrison also kinda died in the comics, if I'm not all too wrong. The One Above All on the other hand is still alive and kicking.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Who would be the equivalent of the Presence / Great Evil Beast in Marvel comics? It can't be The One Above All, because The One Above All stomps Presence / Great Evil Beast / Michael / Luficer / Over-Monitor and so on at the same time. The One Above All has the advantage of being a metatextual entity (writer), while there are outside forces even above the Presence (the writers).Who is THE SECOND in command in the Marvel universe? Back in the day the general idea was that it was Living Tribunal, until Living Tribunal got outworked by Protege and saved by Scathan. (Not counting Pre Retcon Beyonder and Pre Retcon Molecule Man.) So Scathan ranks quite highly on the cosmic tier list.
I've tried keeping up with the Marvel cosmic hierarchy from the last decade. This might be super wrong now, but in my mind the top three in the entire Marvel universe are:
1. The One Above All
2. Fulcrum / Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial
3. ScathanI don't know where to place the Beyonders (Ivory Kings). Three of them killed the Living Tribunal. Would one of them been able to replicate that feat? I don't know. Would the three of them be able to defeat Scathan? I don't know. Would one of them be able to defeat Scathan? I kinda don't think so.
Then the question becomes how far above Scathan are Fulcrum and Tiamut?
Are the Presence and the GEB on the same level as Fulcrum and Tiamut? Or are they above Fulcrum and Tiamut?
I would say no matter how you view it, they should be above Scathan and beat him by the same margin Fulcrum / Tiamut would beat him.Take all of this with a grain of salt though.
DC just like to represent the writer/supreme being slightly differently.
Originally posted by Enzeru
The One Above All created the Presence.
Presence is from marvel now?
you still haven't explain to me how does being the writer avatar a massive advantage that help TOAA win the fight. because if being the writer meaning above all then TOAA stalemate http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/The_Writer
take it for a grain of salt, that's how vsbattles listed, TOAA is in the same tier as the Writer. If you are in the opinion of being the avatar of the writer> all, then TOAA=The Writer, if you are in the opinion of omnipotent>all, then TOAA=The Presence, either or, can't have your cake and eat it too
since TOAA and Writer even each other out
Marvel still has very few answer for the Presence, GEB, Elaine Belloc, Over Monitor, The Empty Hand, Lucifer & Michael, Mxy etc 😆
Originally posted by MrMindI don't really care about this stupid "my omnipotent is better than yours" sort of fanwank, but why would they need it?
Marvel still has very few answer for the Presence, GEB, Elaine Belloc, Over Monitor, The Empty Hand, Lucifer & Michael, Mxy etc 😆
In Marvel no one is near TOAA at all. He is unquestionably omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent. He has no equal and he has no limits.
Why would you need a bunch of beings lower than that to make up for what you perceive to be a numbers disadvantage? Look at how much Marvel sucks because it actually portrayed a fully omnipotent God with no equals or limits! Come on guy.
That being said, **** Scathan. His shit was gay and it was implied he was using ordinary Celestial tech to cage Protege.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Does DC (ignoring Vertigo) even have an omnipotent God ever since Morrison ****ed with the mythos?I know they had the Dog for a bit, but is that it?
Presence manisfest himself as the dog in phantom stranger, g o d backwards d o g. he show up everytime looking different but same character. just like TOAA looking different when talking to spiderman, mr fantastic, or even show up as a she-male(above all others) talking to warlock and thanos. Presene probably has like the same amount of appearences in dc compare to TOAA in marvel too
Originally posted by xJLxKingThe over-monitor is a representation of a writer.
He isn't.
Originally posted by MrMindPresence is from marvel now?
*rolleyes* Dude, stop.
Originally posted by MrMindyou still haven't explain to me how does being the writer avatar a massive advantage that help TOAA win the fight. because if being the writer meaning above all then TOAA stalemate http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/The_Writer
take it for a grain of salt, that's how vsbattles listed, TOAA is in the same tier as the Writer. If you are in the opinion of being the avatar of the writer> all, then TOAA=The Writer, if you are in the opinion of omnipotent>all, then TOAA=The Presence, either or, can't have your cake and eat it too
since TOAA and Writer even each other out
Marvel still has very few answer for the Presence, GEB, Elaine Belloc, Over Monitor, The Empty Hand, Lucifer & Michael, Mxy etc 😆
You aren't making any sense.
There are levels to everything. I can know karate, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm on the same level as a karate master.
There are other fictional universes, where the writer puts themself in their own story. If JK Rowling put herself in the Harry Potter universe as The Writer / The God, would she be as powerful as The One Above All? Of course not, because the Harry Potter universe consists out of ONE universe, where Marvel consists out of an omniverse, which contains countless multiverses, which contain countless universes. And The One Above All is the writer and supreme ruler of that omniverse.
The Presence doesn't hold up in that regard, because he is the most powerful character in the DC omniverse. But he is still a character, who was created by outside forces (writers).
The Writer (Grant Morrison) you're talking about had become a character himself once he wrote himself into the story:
https://i.imgur.com/fpqll9I.jpg
The One Above All however is an ever shifting conceptual idea, that continues to persist and exist. If you think that The One Above All and the Writer are comparable, then it's you who should reconsider his biases towards one of the big two.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I don't really care about this stupid "my omnipotent is better than yours" sort of fanwank, but why would they need it?In Marvel no one is near TOAA at all. He is unquestionably omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent. He has no equal and he has no limits.
Why would you need a bunch of beings lower than that to make up for what you perceive to be a numbers disadvantage? Look at how much Marvel sucks because it actually portrayed a fully omnipotent God with no equals or limits! Come on guy.
I would not even get into this if Enzeru didn't say TOAA stomps Presence GEB Over Monitor all together at the same time. he started the "my omnipotent is better than yours" not me. I think both companies Supreme Beings are equal.
Originally posted by EnzeruThe Writer (Grant Morrison) you're talking about had become a character himself once he wrote himself into the story:
TOAA had become a character himself once he wrote himself into a story
TOAA is a character, yes or no?
you still haven't answer me how does being the writer avatar help TOAA win a forum fight
let me guess, he gonna write Presence out of existence right? 😆 😆 😂
I think I am done with this discussion now 😘
Originally posted by MrMindTOAA had become a character himself once he wrote himself into a story
TOAA is a character, yes or no?
The One Above All is NOT a character. He is a metatextual concept, unlike all the other Supreme Beings of their respective universes.
DC Supreme Being: The Presence / The Great Evil Beast
IMAGE Supreme Being: Man Of Miracles AKA Mother Of Existence
MARVEL Supreme Being: Fulcrum / Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial
The One Above All stomps all of those Supreme Beings. This isn't about omnipotence anymore. This is about the idea behind one of these concepts being on a whole another level. All the Supreme Beings in the universes are the most powerful characters in their respectable universe. The One Above All on the other hand, just like his name literally states it, is a completely different animal.
Originally posted by MrMindyou still haven't answer me how does being the writer avatar help TOAA win a forum fight
There are boards, which have rules against fights between omnipotent characters. When characters can do everything, it just doesn't make sense to put them up against each other. So when it comes to those characters you don't look at who can do more, but at who can do less.
And the Presence is clearly The One Above Alls inferior. The Presence has been created by outside forces, while The One Above All is that outside force. It's actually quite simple. You just don't like it, so you try to fight against it.
Originally posted by MrMindlet me guess, he gonna write Presence out of existence right?
Yes. That is exactly what's going to happen. Because The One Above All is the outside force that birthed the Presence into existence in the first place.
Originally posted by MrMindI think I am done with this discussion now 😘
Awesome.
Originally posted by MrMindDo you think the being infinitely bigger than DC is more powerful than God, in the Overvoid? And if so, is the Presence truly all powerful? And why would a being with actual limits to his power be equal to a being with none in an equally expansive omniverse, or whatever you want to call it.
I would not even get into this if Enzeru didn't say TOAA stomps Presence GEB Over Monitor all together at the same time. he started the "my omnipotent is better than yours" not me. I think both companies Supreme Beings are equal.
DC is a mess in terms of the concept of actual omnipotence right now. And then Snyder tried to say there was a back of the page and it was even bigger. 😂
I don't think this reflects on characters under God at all because why would it, but whoever the current top dog of DC is should be the only one approaching TOAA in the retarded argument of "My God is better than yours". There should be no "This guy is equal to TOAA but below the real top of DC in THIS GUY", because that is simply not how that works. And if the most powerful God in DC has limits, then maybe nobody is actually equal, who knows, who cares?
Marvel is also a mess for so many reasons, but they do the actual God a service. Once we stop pivoting off of TOAA and omnipotent Gods, maybe you can actually have a comparison going. Probably not though.
The One Above All is NOT a character. He is a metatextual concept.
DC Supreme Being: The Presence
MARVEL Supreme Being: Fulcrum / Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial
And the Presence is clearly The One Above Alls inferior. The Presence has been created by outside forces, while The One Above All is that outside force. It's actually quite simple. You just don't like it, so you try to fight against it.
same shit there's your answer 😐 like I said if you wanna go that route, TOAA=The Writer from DC
Yes. That is exactly what's going to happen. Because The One Above All is the outside force that birthed the Presence into existence in the first place.
thanks for your fan fiction, I'm sure stan lee would be proud
😆
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Do you think the being infinitely bigger than DC is more powerful than God, in the Overvoid? And if so, is the Presence truly all powerful? And why would a being with actual limits to his power be equal to a being with none in an equally expansive omniverse, or whatever you want to call it.DC is a mess in terms of the concept of actual omnipotence right now. And then Snyder tried to say there was a back of the page and it was even bigger. 😂
I don't think this reflects on characters under God at all because why would it, but whoever the current top dog of DC is should be the only one approaching TOAA in the retarded argument of "My God is better than yours". There should be no "This guy is equal to TOAA but below the real top of DC in THIS GUY", because that is simply not how that works. And if the most powerful God in DC has limits, then maybe nobody is actually equal, who knows, who cares?
Marvel is also a mess for so many reasons, but they do the actual God a service. Once we stop pivoting off of TOAA and omnipotent Gods, maybe you can actually have a comparison going. Probably not though.
regarding this thread, the concept of having writer avatar on panel>omnipotent is stupid, marvel isn't the only one who introduce the idea of writer manifest character reign supreme over their stories, dc done it with morrison multiple times, other companies fictions have done it.
Originally posted by MrMindlike I said if you wanna go that route, TOAA=The Writer from DC
I've already debunked that idea of yours. You've simply ignored it and restated it again. Wow.
The Writer doesn't even come close to The One Above All. The Writer started off as the avatar of Grant Morrison. Not of "the writer" in general, but that one writer named Grant Morrison, who was working on the Animal Man stories.
Then the Writer became an actual character, since he had written himself into continuity. From that point on he was controlled by others. Who are these others? The same, who have created the Presence. Who has been controlling the Writer and the Presence? Outside forces, but these outside forces simply do not have a form in the DC universe - while the Marvel universe has a form for these outside forces: The One Above All. The One Above All can't be affected by writers, because he is the writers.
The Writer you're talking about... As I said, he is being controlled by others:
https://i.imgur.com/fpqll9I.jpg
The Writer can control reality, if it doesn't flow too fast. So there are clear and massive limitations to his potential omnipotence:
https://i.imgur.com/8ZoaQzS.jpg
And then the Writer ends up getting killed, because he can't write reality fast enough:
https://i.imgur.com/CLCH5mG.jpg
It's actually legit hilarious that you're putting The One Above All and the Writer on the same level. Just stop.
Originally posted by MrMindregarding this thread, the concept of having writer avatar on panel>omnipotent is stupid, marvel isn't the only one who introduce the idea of writer manifest character reign supreme over their stories, dc done it with morrison multiple times, other companies fictions have done it.
Yeah, and Morrison ended up getting killed in the comics. His avatar doesn't even exist anymore, because it was turned into a character.
Other self-inserted writers in fiction didn't control a universe as big as the Marvel omniverse.
The One Above All is actually the most powerful fictional being in all of existence. It's the writer, who commands the entire fictional universe and that universe is so big, that only the DC universe rivals it in size. Nothing else does. Maybe if you combined all of the existing anime and manga into one omniverse and made the God of that universe the avatar of the writer. Then you would have a new number 1. But for now it's Marvel, because DC doesn't have something like The One Above All. I've already shown multiple times that the Writer from DC is simply not the same metatextual being that The One Above All is. And the Presence is also only a mere character in the DC universe. The most powerful one, but one that has been created by others. The One Above All is the others.
