Maul's growth as a duelist

Started by Rockydonovang9 pages

Rebels maul is prime maul:

"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "
-feloni.

And when interviewed at the realease of rebels season 2 on dvd, Feloni has confirmed maul as of this time period(who as is of his prime) is<vader:
''That’s because Yoda’s going to go in there and kick everyone’s butt. We all felt that Ahsoka, the only person that could really match her in this time period, blow for blow, would be Vader or the Emperor."

EVn if you want to say the starwars.com quote invalidates the comparison to ahsoka(even though this actually happens after the starwars.com quote), tas vader is exempted from the starwars.com quote, there is no getting around vader's superiority here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
For the reasons I had already explained. Kanan and Ezra were also fleeing the empire not just Vader. He wasn't alone. Vader was knocked down and not near a cliff. Maul left more of an impact on the two than shitty ass Vader.

Due to Maul being a broken person at the moment whereas Kenobi was sure of who he was. As per Filoni. You seem upset since Maul has routinely got the better of Kenobi whereas Vader only did so after Kenobi dropped his guard. 😂

Kenobi was a true Jedi unlike Vader who was the emperors ***** for two decades. Maul was past his prime and broken at the time of his death.

I posted Filoni's own words and my opinion is supported by common sense, facts, and evidence. Yours isn't based off anything other than retardation.


My "opinion" is fact. Vader's superiority over Maul has been stated by Filoni, Witwer, the author of SoD, and by Maul himself. Stop making excuses for your precious Maul and get over it loser

I don't think anyone's really ever thought Maul as being superior to Vader, pre or post suit.

Originally posted by Rebel95
My "opinion" is fact. Vader's superiority over Maul has been stated by Filoni, Witwer, the author of SoD, and by Maul himself. Stop making excuses for your precious Maul and get over it loser
That is his opinion which isn't canon. His opinion over canon material matters not hypothetical matchups. Again based off the evidence Maul wins. He's a lot quicker than Vader who doesn't have one legit win over any legit Jedi master in a fair fight. Vader was handily crushed by Luke in Rotj and Kenobi dropped his guard. Kenobi is out of his prime as well. Kenobi in his prime beat Vader in his prime.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Rebels maul is prime maul:

"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "
-feloni.

And when interviewed at the realease of rebels season 2 on dvd, Feloni has confirmed maul as of this time period(who as is of his prime) is<vader:
''That’s because Yoda’s going to go in there and kick everyone’s butt. We all felt that Ahsoka, the only person that could really match her in this time period, blow for blow, would be Vader or the Emperor."

EVn if you want to say the starwars.com quote invalidates the comparison to ahsoka(even though this actually happens after the starwars.com quote), tas vader is exempted from the starwars.com quote, there is no getting around vader's superiority here.

He was a broken person and older and out of practice with decades of isolation. I don't think you know what prime means. Your post is incoherent drivel which doesn't mean what you think it does. Your incoherence should just log out. Maul in his prime destroys Vader in his prime. Kenobi already destroyed that version in Rots.

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't think anyone's really ever thought Maul as being superior to Vader, pre or post suit.

Because he's not. Quan is just delusional

Originally posted by Rebel95
Because he's not. Quan is just delusional
The point of the ot people seem to love is this is an era with all the Jedi and Sith out of their primes. It's an era dominated by Palpatine as the emperor's stranglehold on the galaxy after he wiped the Galaxy clean of all but a few Jedi. The one Jedi we see enter his prime is Luke and he handily crushes Vader once he pisses him off. The fact people don't grasp the obvious is once again astonishing. Lucas made it clear to those with functioning brain stems.

Honestly, selectively using "out of their prime" to excuse a character's lose is silly. Fav character's lose; it happens, people just need to accept it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Honestly, selectively using "out of their prime" to excuse a character's lose is silly. Fav character's lose; it happens, people just need to accept it.
I used the guy who created the fights own words as well. Both guys were out of their primes. In their primes Maul was superior. Maul was broken and lost. Kenobi knew who he was in this moment which made it ideal for him in this situation. I accept the facts and the reasons for them. You need to accept the reasoning. It's been provided so stop avoiding it.

@quanchi, didn't see your reply
1. Because we have it being explicitly stated that vader was in his prime and that kenobi grew as a fighter and strengthened his connection to the force, so obviously that doesn't apply here.
2. So Kenobi is>maul because he's emotionally stronger and maul can't beat kenobi? 👆 Your speculation doesn't invalidate feloni's own confirmation that maul has progressed as a duelist. A quote which refers to kenobi and maul as of that "specific moment" where kenobi outdueled. The maul who faced kenobi in rebels was better than the maul who faced kenobi in sod. But clearly, kenobi's superior emotional state and willingness to move on allowed him to progress beyond maul.

You is smart bruh

3. As the quote you ignored shows, maul got better over time despite his emotional state.

4. Kenobi was better in rots, and as feloni has made clear reached his prime in rebels. And I'm talking about sith hunters.
Also, what? How does maul deciding to gang up on kenobi and have his brother ambush him indicate anything impressive about maul's abilities? Maul needing dun moch despite having his brother help him ambush and beat him up before hand to outmatch kenobi(who was beating him beforehand) doesn't show maul as superior. Unless of course you want to concede that tpm kenobi is>tpm maul.

5. As a duelist? As a duelist maul was first losing to tcw kenobi despite ambushing and ganging up on him with the help of his brother. Then on florrum maul briefly fought evenly with kenobi(an engagement which ended with kenobi landing a kick on maul that maul took several seconds to recover from) and then had kenobi9after focusing himself) simultaneously outduel maul and his brother while making use of an unfavored maul.

Why is either of the above more impressive than his performance vs ahsoka in rebels?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
@quanchi, didn't see your reply
1. Because we have it being explicitly stated that vader was in his prime and that kenobi grew as a fighter and strengthened his connection to the force, so obviously that doesn't apply here.
Provide the sources. Kenobi did strengthen his connection to the force but his skills and his body has declined. Do you know how old age works ?


2. So Kenobi is>maul because he's emotionally stronger and maul can't beat kenobi? 👆 Your speculation doesn't invalidate feloni's own confirmation that maul has progressed as a duelist. A quote which refers to kenobi and maul as of that "specific moment" where kenobi outdueled. The maul who faced kenobi in rebels was better than the maul who faced kenobi in sod. But clearly, kenobi's superior emotional state and willingness to move on allowed him to progress beyond maul.
[/B]
Kenobi of this era and in this moment due to him facing off against a broken Maul. Nothing specifically states that conclusion. You just continue to say so despite the fact he's lost. All that matters is the moment of the duel. It's clear though to anyone thinking he's past his prime as is Kenobi.

3. As the quote you ignored shows, maul got better over time despite his emotional state.
[/B]

He learned new things but that doesn't mean he increased his skills as a duelist or that his psyche was in the best possible state going in.


4. Kenobi was better in rots, and as feloni has made clear reached his prime in rebels. And I'm talking about sith hunters.
Also, what? How does maul deciding to gang up on kenobi and have his brother ambush him indicate anything impressive about maul's abilities? Maul needing dun moch despite having his brother help him ambush and beat him up before hand to outmatch kenobi(who was beating him beforehand) doesn't show maul as superior. Unless of course you want to concede that tpm kenobi is>tpm maul.
[/B]
Provide the quote this is Kenobi in his prime. You don't seem to understand what words mean. So I guess Qui and Kenobi against Maul is fair but when he has an ally it's unfair. Maul divided and conquered until he let up to taunt.

Maul bfrd Kenobi. In the previous fight Kenobi had to flee as Maul was unbalancing him.

5. As a duelist? As a duelist maul was first losing to tcw kenobi despite ambushing and ganging up on him with the help of his brother. Then on florrum maul briefly fought evenly with kenobi(an engagement which ended with kenobi landing a kick on maul that maul took several seconds to recover from) and then had kenobi9after focusing himself) simultaneously outduel maul and his brother while making use of an unfavored maul.

Why is either of the above more impressive than his performance vs ahsoka in rebels? [/B]

False. You're lying. I already explained this in the previous point. Quit lying. I want you to go about the task of proving your points not continuously restating them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Provide the sources. Kenobi did strengthen his connection to the force but his skills and his body has declined. Do you know how old age works ?

Kenobi of this era and in this moment due to him facing off against a broken Maul. Nothing specifically states that conclusion. You just continue to say so despite the fact he's lost. All that matters is the moment of the duel. It's clear though to anyone thinking he's past his prime as is Kenobi.

He learned new things but that doesn't mean he increased his skills as a duelist or that his psyche was in the best possible state going in.

Provide the quote this is Kenobi in his prime. You don't seem to understand what words mean. So I guess Qui and Kenobi against Maul is fair but when he has an ally it's unfair. Maul divided and conquered until he let up to taunt.

Maul bfrd Kenobi. In the previous fight Kenobi had to flee as Maul was unbalancing him.

False. You're lying. I already explained this in the previous point. Quit lying. I want you to go about the task of proving your points not continuously restating them.


For refrence, here's the quote:

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=7m33s
"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "
1. "this is vader of his prime" -pablo hidalgo. "Kenobi has strenghened his connection to the force"- Feloni and off course the quote i just provided you shows kenobi improved as a duelist despite any physical degradation.

2. The context of maul and kenobi showing "growth" as "very good duelists" is referring to the moment where kenobi and maul fought.

3. What? The quote i provided from feloni doesn't say anything about "new abilities". It refers to kenobi and maul's "growth" as fighters as a reaspn the fight was so short compared to their earlier "prolonged" saber fights.
4. Kenobi is more powerful and has grown as a duelist, rebels kenobi is prime kenobi. And I never argued tpm kenobi was>tpm maul. How is that relevant to their tcw incarnations

And yes, maul was able to unbalance a kenobi who he and oppress had physically wrecked and ambushed. Doesn't change taht when they were actually clashing sabers, maul was taken out of the fight by kenobi twice(saved by kenobi decidning to save ventress from oppress), and that kenobi was able to land several kicks, retrieve his saber and even drive maul back initally when unbalanced. All maul did in the actual duel was land a flurry of kicks on kenobi(an act of desperation resulting from kenobi slamming maul's blade to the ground and leaving him defenseless). A flurry of kicks kenobi instantly recovered from. That fight definitely didn't show maul as superior.
5.
It happened, your head canon aside

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
For refrence, here's the quote:

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=7m33s
"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "

Ok, you don't prove either character is in their prime just growth. Not the same thing.


1. "this is vader of his prime" -pablo hidalgo. "Kenobi has strenghened his connection to the force"- Feloni and off course the quote i just provided you shows kenobi improved as a duelist despite any physical degradation.
[/B]
A source not just you saying he said Vader is in his prime.

I agree Kenobi is stronger in the force and has become wiser but his physical skills and body have declined. Quit repeating yourself.

2. The context of maul and kenobi showing "growth" as "very good duelists" is referring to the moment where kenobi and maul fought. [/B]

That doesn't mean in their primes that means they have grown with experience. Their skills and bodies are worse for the wear.

3. What? The quote i provided from feloni doesn't say anything about "new abilities". It refers to kenobi and maul's "growth" as fighters as a reaspn the fight was so short compared to their earlier "prolonged" saber fights.
4. Kenobi is more powerful and has grown as a duelist, rebels kenobi is prime kenobi. And I never argued tpm kenobi was>tpm maul. How is that relevant to their tcw incarnations[/B]
None of that proves they are in their primes. He has evolved, matured, and is more wise but his physical skills, movement, and dueling has declined. just because someone grows as an athlete doesn't mean they are superior to their younger versions who have more testosterone and physical skills. It's like saying Deion Sanders evolved as a db which is true but his skills have diminshed as he can no longer rely on his physical prowess to the same extent.

And yes, maul was able to unbalance a kenobi who he and oppress had physically wrecked and ambushed. Doesn't change taht when they were actually clashing sabers, maul was taken out of the fight by kenobi twice(saved by kenobi decidning to save ventress from oppress), and that kenobi was able to land several kicks, retrieve his saber and even drive maul back initally when unbalanced. All maul did in the actual duel was land a flurry of kicks on kenobi(an act of desperation resulting from kenobi slamming maul's blade to the ground and leaving him defenseless). A flurry of kicks kenobi instantly recovered from. That fight definitely didn't show maul as superior.
5.
It happened, your head canon aside [/B]

False, maul was winning. Kenobi quit the fight and was being thrown off by Maul's head games. Maul landed a kick on Palpatine. I guarantee you'll abandon the same logic when I use it in Maul's favor against the Emperor. Yes, since Kenobi retreated and fled.

What also occurred is the new comics series says Maul's prime. It uses the same word prime when you have done anything but. Evolve or growth doesn't mean prime despite your obstinance.

Feloni is referring to them as swordsman. if they've progressed as swordsman, then that is considering any physical degradement.

Please provide the quote or better, a link to the quote about maul's prime? Because the new comic series is about pre-tpm maul. Unless of course this is maul's in charater opinion which is menaingless because this is well before rebels chronologically

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Feloni is referring to them as duelists. if they've progressed as fighters, then that is considering any physical degradement.

Please provide the quote or better, a link to the quote about maul's prime? Because the new comic series is about pre-tpm maul

That doesn't mean they are in their physical primes.

Will you concede the point if I do some searching ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean they are in their physical primes.

Will you concede the point if I do some searching ?


1. Whether they're in their physical primes doesn't matter. As duelists, they are in their primes and that includes physical abilities or potential physical degradement, So combatively this is still prime maul and kenobi.

2. Sure, assuming this quote of yours actually says what you say it says

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Whether they're in their physical primes doesn't matter. As duelists, they are in their primes and that includes physical abilities or potential physical degradement, So combatively this is still prime maul and kenobi.

2. Sure, assuming this quote of yours actually says what you say it says

So you dismiss the very meaning of prime when we read Filoni's words describing maul's state regarding this fight. He was lost and broken and you think this is his prime ? You just destroyed your own argument.

Now it isn't necessary based on your own criteria.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you dismiss the very meaning of prime when we read Filoni's words describing maul's state regarding this fight. He was lost and broken and you think this is his prime ? You just destroyed your own argument.

Now it isn't necessary based on your own criteria.


1. Kenobi and maul don't have to be in their physical primes to be in their primes as duelists overall. Their abilities as fighters include their physical abilitites so feloni's statement is considering any potential physical degradement.

2. So the quote doesn't exist? concession accepted

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Kenobi and maul don't have to be in their physical primes to be in their primes as duelists overall. Their abilities as fighters include their physical abilitites so feloni's statement is considering any potential physical degradement.

2. So the quote doesn't exist? concession accepted

So his psyche and his physical abilities don't matter. Do you even listen to yourself ? And no his statement doesn't specify physical state at all.

It does but I do not feel like searching especially when you just neutered your own argument.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So his psyche and his physical abilities don't matter. Do you even listen to yourself ? And no his statement doesn't specify physical state at all.

It does but I do not feel like searching especially when you just neutered your own argument.


1. Why does it have to specify their physical state? Physical states/mental are a part of hwo good kenobi and maul are as fighters.

2. Concession accepted 🙂