Maul's growth as a duelist

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Why does it have to specify their physical state? Physical states/mental are a part of hwo good kenobi and maul are as fighters.

2. Concession accepted 🙂

2. It exists but since you neutered your own argument I don't have to waste time googling it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Because that clearly diminshed. Experiences warrant growth so since they have had more experience since their last meeting they have evolved as characters but that doesn't mean they are in their primes as duelists.

2. It exists but since you neutered your own argument I don't have to waste time googling it.

2. Whatever you say

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. What? If they have improved as duelists, how the f can they not have improved as duelists, geez you're stretching. Maul or kenobi getting physically doesn't mean they can't have gotten better as duelists overall as feloni implies

2. Whatever you say

Quit spelling his name incorrectly. He never states they improved as duelists.

2. You lose.

Maul is trash compared to Kenobi and Vader

Not sure Maul was in his prime, given his psyche. But Kenobi definitely is in his new enlightened mindset. Kenobi was always best when calm and rational, so this is his ultimate form.

That said I don't think TCW/SOD Maul is head and shoulders above Rebels Maul given he always struggled against a less enlightened version of Kenobi.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Maul is trash compared to Kenobi and Vader

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not sure Maul was in his prime, given his psyche. But Kenobi definitely is in his new enlightened mindset. Kenobi was always best when calm and rational, so this is his ultimate form.

That said I don't think TCW/SOD Maul is head and shoulders above Rebels Maul given he always struggled against a less enlightened version of Kenobi.

Kenobi is past his prime just primed for this moment against this Maul based off past expeorneces and Maul's brokenness.

Your theory about an enlightened Kenobi isn't factual so get your bs out of here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Filoni said otherwise. Your perceptions are your own and contrary to the people who scripted the fight. Maul at his best has always been better than Kenobi.

This Maul wanking after such a poor showing is sad. He's never been all that amazing, at his best he's equal to a casual Kenobi.

Originally posted by Rebel95
What did filoni say? Because according to him Maul is inferior to Vader. Kenobi is debatable

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you have no earthly idea yet want to blindly throw in your unwanted two cents. Ew. That's his opinion and he's welcome to it but anything that becomes a fact is irrefutable. Why don't you Star Wars debaters get it. If a writer pens something that becomes canon his opinion matters since its evidence. If he muses on something to never see the light of day it remains only his opinion.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Ok, well it's a fact that Vader is more powerful than Maul, and Filoni has never said anything about maul being better than Vader or Kenobi so I'm not really sure what your point is.

Maul is quicker, more agile, and has a stronger will therefore he wins. They never fought so all anyone can do is speculate based off factual info.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree Vader has more force power than Maul. i only take any writers words over their own canon work otherwise it's just an opinion of something not canon.

Maul is quicker, more agile, and has a stronger will therefore he wins. They never fought so all anyone can do is speculate based off factual info.

But you're wrong

Originally posted by Rebel95
Fair enough, that's your opinion I can respect that.

But you're wrong

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am right. Vader is so overrated it's appalling. He didn't even definitively best Tano. Kenobi let him win. Luke destroyed him as soon as he let loose in Rotj. Hell, Luke even grazed his shoulder when he was a mess in ESB. Maul would ****ing destroy a suited Vader in Maul's prime.

ROTJ Vader was in his prime. He describes himself as being the most powerful he has ever been.

1. We don't know the outcome of his fight with Tano, but during the fight itself she's constantly getting her guard overpowered by Vader and is constantly falling back. Not out of strategy, but because Vader forced her on that defensive. Just watch her facial expressions. She's trying hard not to get completely overpowered by Vader's strength.

2. Kenobi was going to lose anyway. It's described in ANH script as well as the comic.

3. Luke is a Skywalker without the limitation of losing all of his limbs. His potential is double Sidious' (not sure if this is confirmed in canon, but regardless, he is a Skywalker). He could mirror and copy his father's technique, and when enraged, Vader couldn't do anything. Just like how Knightfall Anakin is a 9 and could fight Yoda and Sidious on equal terms. The dark side amped him, just like Luke got amped by his anger on the death start in ROTJ.

4. With ESB, Luke grazed Vader's shoulder because Vader was going all out and not caring about his own defenses. But once he gets hit, he decides its time to stop playing around and immediately follows up by disarming Luke.

5. Can you confirm that Maul is quicker? And how does he have a stronger will than Vader? Vader literally killed the Anakin inside him.

I agree Vader has more force power than Maul.

Then Vader could just sit there and win in a force battle and not even bother pulling out his lightsaber?

Plus, Maul during rebels admits he cannot defeat Vader alone. He also appears to be scared of Vader.

Not only this, but Feloni says that if they were to come up against each other, Vader would beat Maul. It's irrelevant if he said it instead of writing it down. That would mean most of the George Lucas statements we use mean nothing.

If Maul and Tano were fighting evenly, then Vader has proven that he can keep up with Maul in terms of speed anyway.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi let him win. .

Please provide the evidence that Kenobi let him win, because otherwise, you're facing the almost certain possibility that Rebels Kenobi is roughly on par with ANH Vader, which would mean he's definitely above any iteration of Maul.

Of course you're going to say it doesn't mean that, but you'd still have to provide proof for your claim.

Also Quanchi, if we wanna talk about prime Vader (ROTJ) and prime Maul (which *I think* you believe to be SoD, though you don't really give a straight answer from memory) all of the canon points towards Vader, not Maul. There is not one shred of evidence from canon that suggests Vader could not take Maul.

Also consider that ROTJ Vader is even more powerful than his Rebels/ANH incarnation.

Wait, does that mean ROTJ Luke could beat Maul? Oh man, Maul just isn't getting lucky at all 😉 After Jinn, has he ever beat another Jedi? Not from memory he hasn't. Heck, Kanan poned him lol.

Gotta give Maul points for trying and willpower though. Too bad he doesn't win any duels.

Rebels Vader is Vader's prime in Canon.

ROTJ Vader is Vader's prime in Legends.

Just to clarify.

Vader is at his best during ESB. By the time of RotJ, he has become highly conflicted.

e. For Canon or Legends?